(08-31-2017, 12:17 AM)rpmaluki Wrote:N(08-30-2017, 11:39 PM)wesen Wrote:These days, most fictional work on film or tv is riddled with cliches or tropes, not even GoT was immune to this since they ran out of books to adapt. It wouldn't be that way if people didn't readily respond to that type of writing. There's nothing wrong with Nick and Adalind being written that way, at the very least there was some complexity in them getting together. It wasn't easy or something that happened overnight. People will either accept what put in front of them or reject it.(08-30-2017, 07:15 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: It's a TV and movie cliche for a man and a woman forced by circumstances to live, work or otherwise have to depend on each other to eventually fall in love no matter how much they dislike each other at first. In movies, their romance usually ends sometime before the sequel; on TV, if the ratings drop precipitously after they get together. Nickalind was pretty much inevitable the moment Nick brought Adalind and Kelly to the fome because he thought they were in enough danger to have to live in a secret base.
It might be cliche but if it works then I don't see why it should be a problem. My topic wasn't about the use of cliches or not, it was more to do with why the characters of Nick and Adalind worked 'clicked' together more than juliette and Nick did. Nadalind was more popular with the viewers than juliette and Nick, so it's no surprise that the writers chose to go with them as end game.
I happen to agree with a lot of your assessment of them as a couple. Yes they certainly clicked, better than Nick and Juliette ever did. during S5 and S6 Nick is in a different place with Adalind than he was with Juliette. He is unsettled, unsure but intensely drawn to Adalind beyond just settling for the woman that was just within reach compared to Juliette, where he was settled and comfortable but things fell apart no matter all his efforts to hold on to what they had, he still drifted apart from her (unintentionally). At the end of the show, Nick is certain that Adalind was the one he wanted/loved. He still loved Eve/Juliette but that love had transformed to a different kind of love, one based on friendship instead of a love between a man and a woman. He was in love with Adalind and the world was possibly ending so he told her he loved her before going after Zerstörer. The confession of his feelings may seem out of place or too little too late to some but Adalind's initial confession of her own feelings was under similar strenuous conditions. These two played everything close to the chest until forced to embrace the reality of their situation. She was afraid he would never return and thus wanted him to know how she felt and he did the exact same thing.
I was drawn to them as a couple because of the challenge of what being together meant to them at the end of the day. logic says they should have hated one another till the end of time, Having Kelly should never have changed that. You only have to look at Adalind and Renard's relationship to see that it was more than possible for Adalind to remain indifferent towards the man she hated and regarded as an enemy for a very long time. And Nick was no different but even more so, despite his physical attraction to her, for several seasons we've never seen him succumb to his baser nature as a man and as a Grimm, that additional nature should have prevented him pursuing a relationship not only with an enemy but one who was a hexenbiest, the ultimate arch nemesis who cared that they shared a son?
With Juliette, I could never get into them because I felt that the relationship was being broken down (not strengthened) whereas Nick and Adalind were being built up. I was more invested in watching them make their relationship work rather than slog through the ever disintegrating relationship of Nick and Juliette that became too battered once Juliette's resentment and bitterness towards Nick's Grimm (before she went crazy on hexenbiest) I was desperate for the writers to end them and put me out of my misery. I felt like four whole years were wasted on a doomed relationship that added nothing to the lore of the show.
What turned me off Juliette and Nick was the efforts that Nick kept going through for Juliette, but still, it seemed like it was never enough. Juliette just seemed so high maintenance, so often demanding. Juliette could have walked away from Nick if she felt that his life as a Grimm was too much to handle, instead she basically forced him to choose her over who he really was. She wanted him to forget his heritage, his family, just so he could be conventionally normal for her. That's not real love. To Juliette, she loved the idea of Nick the human cop rather than Nick the Grimm who also happened to be a cop. When Kelly was talking in the end, he mentioned something about how the world was saved because Nick didnt turn away from who he was - as a Grimm. I thought it significant because it showed that Adalind really did love Nick for who he was, the cop and the Grimm.
(08-31-2017, 01:13 AM)dicappatore Wrote:(08-30-2017, 11:11 PM)rpmaluki Wrote:(08-30-2017, 07:49 PM)dicappatore Wrote: I know this is a fantasy show and what we are trying to analyze is two characters created by a writing staff. But these writers are real people and what they write has to be part of their life experiences including the experiences of what they read in that life time. Hence a TV series based on someone else writings. So, even if these are fictional characters, some basis of reality has to be applied to them from the creators and from the viewers.
So, here is a thought. How about faith? How about faith being another reason Nick and Adalind clicked? Somewhere I read that Adalind was just a character created for the pilot, yet Faith, made her character more appealing to the writers and then the viewers.
I know, some posters hate it that Nick was the main man, top honcho, “The Grimm”, which the show is based on, and the Adalind character became the face of his arch enemy. Again, I blame, Faith for the progression that developed this character.
Part of the progression was for this character be the catalyst of the breakup of Nick & Juliette and she did try in more than once. The whole coma season was one and by removing the Grimm from Nick she ended up having his baby.
So, after all these trials and tribulations, they end up under one roof. Let’s put to rest, as some posters claim that they were both social outcasts and had no one else to turn to. He was still a detective, and she was still a lawyer, and both damm good looking. They were still a catch.
After Nick’s experience with Juliette, he didn’t have the desire to get involved with another woman, yet. Adalind experiences with the loss of her first child focused on being a real mom so as not to repeat the mistake she made with her first one. These two characters didn’t fall for each other overnight in one episode. It took a while for their relationship to flourish. The separation forced on them by BC just strengthen what they had.
Did anyone ever think, when they saw that pilot. These two would end up together? Baby Kelly was the catalyst that brought them under the same roof, but I believe, Faith in the writers made them click.
(08-30-2017, 10:52 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Generations of watching movies and TV shows and reading all sorts of trash romance materials has created a widespread belief that a man and woman thrown together by circumstance for any length of time will inevitably fall into bed together. I call it cliche, but I suppose you could call it faith.Faith or do you mean fate?
Damm good question. I guess either can apply.
Faith, due to unseen forces pushing them towards each other.
Fate, it was inevitable that they would end up together.
(08-30-2017, 06:25 AM)wesen Wrote: Furthermore I thought there was a little bit of juliette still left in Eve in season 5 or else she wouldn't have done her best to put doubt in Nick's mind that adalind could be trusted once her hexenbiest powers returned. Eve went so far as to threaten adalind if she ever dared to hurt Nick, even though she claimed to be an entirely separate person from juliette. Why would eve have cared to go to that trouble if she truly didn't care about Nick any more? And though I have nothing against juliette/Eve and actually do like her, I didn't like the fact that she mentioned to Nick that she would do all she could to protect Kelly without once mentioning his mother, even though adalind would never have done anything to endanger her baby's life. Then we see evidence in season 6 once juliette's feelings returned, that she was still somewhat affected by Nick moving on to a new relationship. We see this when she hears the conversation between Nick and Adalind about how much they missed each other, her face does a strange like woge. Then we see another scene where Diana and eve/Juliette talk about Nick and how sometimes Juliette feels sad because she misses him as her bf. It wasnt juliette who had moved on from Nick, rather it was Nick who had moved on and chosen a life with Adalind. Yes, he felt responsible and guilty for turning juliette into a hexenbiest but he was no longer in love with her.
One of my biggest claim I have posted on other threads was how Juliette cheated on Nick after she became a Hex. Something Nick never did to Juliette. In response to my claim by the pro-Juliette crowd, they used the excuse that she was on a break-up and was just having sex with others as a single woman.
What you said above affirmed that Juliette was never on a break-up. Like you said, she never got over him, she was never on a break-up. She never got over him as Hex/Juliette, Eve/Juliette nor Stick-Healed/Juliette. When she tells Nick that they can never go back, she was referring to, not only the betrayal of trapping his mom to get beheaded, the dead neighboors, but also how she betrayed him. Something he never did to her but constantly suspected that he did in more than one occasion.
I thought Juliette treated Nick unfairly too. She could have walked away from him if she hated his life as a Grimm. Instead, she wanted to have her cake and eat it too. Juliette was fascinated by the wesen world but she didn't want Nick to be a part of it, she wanted him to be a normal human like her. I thought it was horrible that she basically wanted him to change himself for her, because she didn't accept him for who he was. Juliette knew that there might be unforeseen consequences about the twinning spell, but then she chose to blame Nick. She never appreciated the fact that he forced himself to turn away from who he was because he wanted to please her, she immediately blamed him instead of trying to work things out with him for the sake of their relationship. Not only that, she wanted him to kiss her as a hexenbiest (even though she was aware that he was still in shock and was trying to process what happened), slept with Renard, burned down the trailer, tried to kill Nick's child, betrayed Nick by helping the royals kill his mother and kidnap Diana, and didn't care that the royals murdered innocent people (neighbours). But it wasn't enough, she still wanted to kill Nick, and she would have succeeded too, if Truble hadn't arrived in time to stop her. In the end, it was her own actions that led to her downfall, and though she may have had her reasons to feel angry and betrayed by Nick, there was no excuse for her to have done the things she did. I don't think she's evil, she obviously was trying to atone for her sins in season 6, and none of the other characters were morally upright themselves, but I still didn't like that because of her feelings for Nick, she tried to cause conflict between Nick and Adalind, even when she was pretending to be Eve.