05-26-2018, 09:36 AM
(05-26-2018, 07:53 AM)irukandji Wrote: Juliette participated in the first and second kidnappings, that much is correct.I didn’t say Juliette or Eve executed Diana’s third kidnapping, but that Eve purposely concealed the third kidnapping. HW wanted the powerful child in their possession, and as an HW operative, Eve complied - just as Trubel did. Meisner saved Diana from the Royals, but that technicality doesn’t whitewash that he kidnapped her for the same reason Kelly and Kenneth did - to establish control and influence over the powerful Hexenbiest child.
However, the facts are not quite correct with regard to the third kidnapping. Meisner committed that kidnapping prior to Eve becoming an operative. The series took the position that the kidnapping was to be applauded, as HW saved baby Diana from not only the royals, but BC.
(05-26-2018, 07:53 AM)irukandji Wrote: But for this discussion, was it really a kidnapping at that point? Renard asked about Diana's whereabouts and Meisner replied she was with friends. Did Renard voice concern over the Diana's third kidnapping? Did he seem concerned about the baby's welfare? From what I recall, he made no objections.Yes, it was, just as it was a kidnapping when Team Grimm helped Kelly and when Juliette helped Kenneth. Renard’s pathetic response to learning Meisner had taken Diana from the King does not have influence over Eve’s decisions and actions concerning Diana.
(05-26-2018, 07:53 AM)irukandji Wrote: And what about Eve at this point? Was she a fully working HW operative? From what I recall, she was not. It took weeks of training, beatings, and whatever chemicals HW forced into her in order for her to become Eve. When Meisner headed up HW, I never took him for a man who reveals all to his operatives. Trubel didn't even know the name of the organization and she's already been doing assignments for them. Diana was in a safehouse and her whereabouts had nothing to do with Eve. When exactly would Meisner have done the big reveal to Eve? For what purpose? I can see him revealing that to her when the house was broken into and Diana's "family" was killed. But Diana was gone so what exactly was Eve going to tell Adalind about Diana?Eve was introduced as a fully integrated HW operative in the sixth episode. When Eve learned about Diana wasn’t disclosed, but her knowledge of Diana was made known to viewers near the end of the season, before BC took her from the safe house. Eve’s predicament was not her inability to be proactive in Adalind learning about Diana. Eve didn’t consider telling Adalind because her loyalty was with HW just as Juliette’s loyalty was with Nick and his mother in S3 and to her own need for revenge in S4.
I'm not arguing with you that Eve may have known and didn't immediately go running over to Adalind to reveal all. However, it didn't appear to me that if she knew, Meisner revealed all to her at day one.
(05-26-2018, 07:53 AM)irukandji Wrote: The original post regarding the subject:I think you’re mixing the Juliette, Eve, and Juliette-Eve timelines. And while the decisions and actions of the three personalities were much the same, their motivations weren’t.
Quote:But had Nick and Juliette been together at the time, I don’t see Juliette forcing Nick to choose between her and a child he fathered with Adalind. If anything, I’d assume they would just take another baby from Adalind. They gave Renard’s daughter to Nick’s mother, they’d keep Nick’s son for themselves.
Your post seems to indicate that Eve would not force Nick to choose between her and Kelly, but likely she would take the child from Adalind and give Diana to Renard. Wouldn't this be because you're assuming Nick would want it to be so?
What about the scene where Eve confronts Adalind and tells her she will kill her if she hurts Nick? If Eve had known of Diana's whereabouts, wouldn't she be restoring Diana to Adalind because Nick wants it to be so? While not the most diligent in Portland police history, Nick did make an attempt to find Diana.
The argument that she would take Kelly from Adalind just because Nick says it's so holds no merit. Not even the fact that she wanted to continue being an HW operative holds no merit. If that were the case, she'd be plaguing Trubel with questions about how to get back into the fold. While she was visibly upset that HW did not want her, I don't recall Eve hanging about the ruins, wishing for the good old times. She went back with the scoobies and helped them.
In point of fact, while Nick used the stick to heal Eve's wound, he didn't voice any noticeable concern over her, even when she was in the basement doing her symbol thing. It was Adalind who, with Diana, found her, cared for her and befriended her.
If we're to believe Grimm, the stick gave Eve feelings. Those feelings would generate much thought which I believe would prevent Eve from taking baby Kelly from Adalind, even if Nick demanded it.
My post that you quoted -
“But had Nick and Juliette been together at the time, I don’t see Juliette forcing Nick to choose between her and a child he fathered with Adalind. If anything, I’d assume they would just take another baby from Adalind. They gave Renard’s daughter to Nick’s mother, they’d keep Nick’s son for themselves.”
- was based on Juliette while human and a Hexenbiest before she became Eve. Eve in S5 & S6 doesn’t have any connection to the S4 scenario I suggested about Nick & Juliette’s likely response to Adalind giving birth to Nick’s biological son.
If Juliette went along with Kelly absconding with Diana in S3 because Kelly was Nick’s mother and Nick was onboard with the idea, then it’s reasonable to conclude she would have went along with Nick had he wanted to take his biological son from Adalind. Juliette would have loved the baby as her own simply because he was Nick’s. I don’t think that conclusion is farfetched. Prior to her becoming a Hexenbiest and Nick’s inexplicable enemy, Juliette demonstrated her loyalty and commitment to Nick time and again - as did the others in his group.
"If my devils are to leave me, I am afraid my angels will take flight as well." Rainer Maria Rilke