(05-13-2018, 11:09 AM)irukandji Wrote: Part of this deal involves Nick protecting Adalind and his child. He apparently wanted to do so. At least, part of the that protection involves oversight. I don't know how else a person can protect another without it.Nick’s decision to set up house in an old paint factory with a loft apartment wasn’t derived from a single event - having an unintended child with Adalind - but from the culmination of events leading up to Juliette’s ‘death’ and the birth of his son. Nick being actively involved in his son’s life and protecting his son or his son’s mother didn’t require sharing a house, or for that matter, a bed with Adalind. My point was that Nick would not have had Adalind living with him permanently, if at all, had he and Juliette been together. Nor would he have necessarily considered selling the house and moving had he and Juliette been together.
There are always alternative scenarios to the writers’ choice. Based on previous seasons, there’s no reason to assume Adalind’s pregnancy would end Nick/Juliette had she not become a Hexenbiest or they worked through the issues & complications of her becoming a Hexenbiest. But the writers’ choice was for the relationship to end, open the door for Nick/Adalind, and create a new character for Bitsie Tulloch.
In many ways the character, Juliette, was a victim of the writers, as were most of the characters at various times. But Juliette wasn’t an innocent bystander once she chose to stay with Nick, actively participate in Grimm/Wesen conflicts, and expose herself to a spell that had decidedly unknown risky consequences.
(05-12-2018, 10:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: You stated previously that Juliette didn't need any time to consider how Nick's grimm/wesen world would affect her life, but instead eagerly jumped into his bizarre world. Considering that and Nick’s circle, it’s ridiculous that Juliette would instantly fear Nick would kill her because a spell turned her into a Hexenbiest.I agree that the show emphasized spells were dangerous with sometimes deadly consequences - before and after Juliette chose to participate in the reversal spell. But Juliette experiencing the worst possible side effect wasn’t the downfall of Nick/Juliette or her ultimate death. Nick didn’t give Juliette an ultimatum - he’d only help her if she moved back into the house. Nor did he want to ‘fix’ her until Juliette’s behavior became uncharacteristic and violent. If we are to believe that the spell and Hexenbiest overwhelmed Juliette’s ability to reason and deal with catastrophe, then it’s reasonable to believe that Nick and their friends would eagerly seek out a way to counter the spell’s and the Hexenbiest’s control over Juliette.
In my opinion, Juliette's shock and fear at realizing she was a hexenbiest go hand in hand with the fear that Nick will kill her because he is a grimm and she's a hexenbiest. Juliette the human was not prone to shock and fear when viewing herself in the mirror. That only occurred when she was transitioning to a hexenbiest.
The series set out to prove to viewers that spells and potions are serious things. They made a point of telling viewers that in this case, there could be side effects. These aren't things a human can overcome simply because they know of Nick and his wesen world. Both Hank and Juliette were part of Nick's world, yet both fell victim to spells.
The explanation behind Juliette's initial fear of Nick killing her made perfect sense to me. There would certainly be a period of adjustment for any woman transitioning to hexenbiest. Both Henrietta and Adalind made that clear.
(05-12-2018, 10:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: You're stating that Nick's only alternative was to point a gun at Juliette because he believed she was Adalind.I didn’t state that Nick had only one alternative about the gun or any other decisions he made. I only stated why Nick initially drew his weapon and that Juliette’s response indicated she understood his assumption.
The show provided a basis for a generic Grimm/Hexenbiest deadly hostility with entries in the Grimm books. The show also presented from the very beginning that Nick was not a generic Grimm. Adalind’s spell on Hank prevented Nick from killing her at that specific time, it didn’t prevent him from killing her later. Nick never pursued killing Adalind or Catherine. He wasn’t compelled to kill Elizabeth or Henrietta simply because they were Hexenbiest. There wasn’t anything about Nick’s behavior toward Hexenbiest to suggest his instinctual response would be to kill the woman he love simply because she’d become a Hexenbiest after risking her life to help him become a Grimm again.
I get that you take issue with Nick pointing a gun at Juliette when she woged. But the character didn’t express anger over Nick’s reaction, rather, understood his assumption and provided personal details that only she would know. Juliette’s momentary fear was that Nick might shoot before realizing his mistake, not that he would shoot despite knowing it was her or that violence was Nick’s automatic response to the unknown. Juliette was angry that Nick left then slept on the sofa when he returned instead of sharing a bed with her. Had the gun incident been a pivotal turning point for Juliette, she would have left while Nick was gone, not waited for him to return so they could continue talking.
(05-12-2018, 10:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: Kenneth's continuing distrust of Juliette made me think that he believed she might want to decide to work things out with Nick.Kenneth was smart enough to consider the possibility that Juliette’s hatred of Nick might wane, but Juliette’s actions didn’t indicate her rage and retaliation toward Nick, Adalind, and her former friends had wavered.
(05-12-2018, 10:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: I stated Juliette retaliated against Nick. With this post, I also include Adalind as well. But her retaliation was aimed at them, not her friends. Monroe, Rosalee and Hank can certainly be outraged over her conduct, but in the same token, they all know it was Nick and Adalind she was targeting.That Monroe, Rosalee and Hank understood Juliette was directing her rage and retaliation only at Nick and Adalind wouldn’t dilute their reaction to her behavior. Rosalee didn’t state she was done helping Juliette after she refused to drink the potion or continued to strike back at Nick and Adalind. Rosalee stated she was done helping Juliette after she purposely used her mind control power to directly threaten Monroe’s life then laughed about it.
(05-12-2018, 10:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: I don't believe this for one second. I don't believe Juliette would take Adalind's baby from her.
(05-12-2018, 11:14 AM)Robyn Wrote: Based on her having participated in the first kidnapping?
(05-12-2018, 10:22 AM)irukandji Wrote: If I had thought that, I would have noted that in my original response.Then I don’t understand what you’re basing it on, if not that Nick and Juliette willingly helped kidnap Adalind’s baby simply because Nick’s mother wanted the child. Juliette not only helped Kelly kidnap Adalind’s baby, she actively assisted the Royals, who she knew to be cruel and violent, simply to retaliate against Adalind. Juliette’s actions in S4 aren’t any more justifiable than Adalind’s actions were when working for Renard and later harming Juliette to retaliate against Nick. Malicious behavior is wrong regardless of which character is conducting it.
Based on their lack of concern or remorse over stealing Diana in S3, there’s no reason for me to assume they and their friends wouldn’t have concocted another scheme to take Nick’s baby from Adalind in S4 had they remained together, whether or not Juliette was a Hexenbiest. Adalind reasonably assumed the suppressant worked and Nick had come to Bud’s house to get rid of her.
I’m certainly not arguing that Juliette didn’t get a raw deal throughout the show. The character was abused for the sake of storylines throughout the seasons, but so were some of the other characters. For me, S4’s outcome would have worked better had the storyline established that any human would have been incapable of withstanding the spell-created Hexenbiest, and that Juliette was absolutely a victim of circumstances beyond her control. But that wasn’t how G & K chose to address the character’s demise. Instead they simply presented that Juliette became a Hexenbiest, had difficulty accepting her predicament, and quickly succumbed to the Hexenbiest’s inherent malicious behavior.
But by doing so, they disregarded everything previously established about Hexenbiest. And probably worst of all - by having HW create an alternate personality who could fully and comfortably control the Hexenbiest’s influence and powers, G & K basically announced that it was specifically Juliette who couldn’t handle the Hexenbiest.
"If my devils are to leave me, I am afraid my angels will take flight as well." Rainer Maria Rilke