12-30-2017, 03:35 PM
I found Adalind to be very creepy in that scene.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
12-30-2017, 03:35 PM
I found Adalind to be very creepy in that scene.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
(12-28-2017, 06:27 PM)izzy Wrote: Except a lifetime of experience, the knowledge a leopard does not change it spots, and the show itself. There is a reason why addicts who understand themselves always reference themselves as an addict, even when they have been off the substance of their weakness for years. What they learn to do is channel their compulsive nature, put restraints around themselves, AND change their associations. The latter is the key. There is a reason why parolees are not allowed to associate with their old click and a reason why addicts are encouraged to form new associations. Adalind is a manipulator by nature, consciously and unconsciously it is her survival mechanism and default behavior. It is beyond incredulous to believe that Adalind was able to change her nature without altering any of her associations, the nature of the challenges in front of her, or anything else via willpower alone.This brings to question whether Adalind actually changed/stepped on the path to redemption or simply shifted her alliance. In the beginning, Adalind’s reaction to Nick was that of a typical Wesen encountering a Grimm. She didn’t target Marie or Nick to rid Portland of Grimm or to get the key for herself. She targeted Marie for assassination and performed the deadly spell on Hank because it pleased Renard which she believed would compel him to love her. So while her actions were evil, her motivation wasn’t. Her spell on Juliette was about retaliating against Nick. Working for the Royals was about survival and retaliating against Renard. Although Adalind’s actions were selfish and immature and evil in their execution, she again wasn’t motivated to be evil for the sake of being evil. Who knows what Adalind might have done if things had gone as planned and she traded the baby for a new Hexenbiest. But once Adalind chose to leave with Meisner to protect herself and unborn child she only looked forward. She didn’t have thoughts of reconnecting with Renard or continuing her revenge on Renard and Nick. And being taken back to Portland and Diana being taken didn’t derail her new mindset. Adalind didn’t take Nick’s Grimm for revenge, but only because Viktor required it in exchange for being with Diana. So when I look at the chronological events in Adalind’s life, it’s not so evident that she actually changed her ways as much as she changed her association. Adalind didn’t resume committing evil against Nick because their alliance was crucial to her and Kelly’s continual survival. She didn’t tell Nick the suppressant had worn off for the same reason she formed an alliance with him - survival, and wanting him to love her even if that love was based on deceit. That she hated Renard for giving Diana to Kelly but didn’t hate Nick & his friends for doing the same speaks more to her choice of alliance than to her daughter actually being taken. I don’t doubt that Adalind loves Nick, but then, I don’t doubt that she loved Renard once upon a time. Adalind refused to lie under oath for Renard supposedly because it risked compromising her children. However, Adalind immediately agreed to lie under oath for Nick despite the risk to her children. Was her refusal then later agreement really about her children or loyalty to her current alliance, whoever that might be with? After all that, I don’t think I really understand the question as it’s presented. Did Adalind redeem herself? If redemption is that she stopped doing evil against Nick & his friends, then she redeemed herself at the end of S4 when she aligned with them. If redemption is that she took responsibility for herself and her children, then she hasn’t redeemed herself or shown any indication that she will. Adalind was hysterical that Nick might not return from Germany. No one was after her or Kelly, and she didn’t express any inclination to pursue getting Diana back. So while Nick’s death certainly wouldn’t have been inconsequential, it shouldn’t have ended life as Adalind knew it except that she might have to get a job and maintain a household on her own. Adalind was again hysterical when the suppressant wore off - Nick might throw her out, or, kill her. If she genuinely believed he might respond that way, why would she want to pursue a relationship with him? The old S1-S2 Adalind pursued a relationship with Renard despite glaring indications that he felt absolutely nothing for her. So is the supposedly new and improve S5 Adalind actually the same Adalind from S1-S2 who would deceive the person she loves while convincing him she’s worthy of his love? I think the better test for Adalind being a better person for her sake and the sake of her children would be for her to refuse Renard and BC despite knowing that Nick wouldn’t love her or want a relationship with her. The entire time she was at the BC house, Adalind kept holding on to the hope that she would get back to Nick. Would she have continued to reject Renard’s proposed arrangement had she known having a relationship with Nick wasn’t an option? Because I do question whether Adalind was motivated to actually be a better person or motivated to be the person she believed Nick would love.
"If my devils are to leave me, I am afraid my angels will take flight as well." Rainer Maria Rilke
It's obvious Adalind's life would look different if Nick never reciprocated her feelings. I don't think she'd be with Renard at all since (at least not out of love) he stopped being an option for her romantically before Diana's birth but if she never moved to the loft thus never developed feelings for Nick and BC approached her with the same deal of playing Renard's wife, she probably would have been more receptive to the idea. Adalind rejected Renard in S5 because she loved Nick, not because Nick loved her. She left the loft convinced Nick didn't trust her feelings for him were genuine and she told Bonaparte that Sean wasn’t her type (anymore). It's Nick showing up at the mansion in S6 that she starts having confidence in his feelings for her to the point where she's never even insecure when living with Eve just outside her bedroom door, talk about awkward.
Adalind did switch allegiance several times over the course of the show. - S1 she was loyal to Sean. - S2 she was loyal to Erik. - S3 she was loyal to herself and then later to herself and Diana. - S4 was a continuation of that but coupled with being under the Royals' thumb. Being pregnant with Kelly moved her away from the Royals to being under Nick's protection but her loyalty was still towards herself and her children. - In S5 and S6 there's a minimal shift as she expands that circle of loyalty to include Nick and later his friends. The subject of redemption is a murky one for me when it comes to television. I don't harp on it too much because I think overstated and rather subjective. I tend to look for one thing when I look at characters who are villains turned good. I look for remorse. It's nigh impossible for me to care about a character doing good when they lack remorse over their horrible actions. Adalind was regretful over Diana, she wanted to do right by her children (in the context of their wesen/Grimm world not my human-only world). She was regretful over what she did to Nick and Juliette, she took in Eve. She apologised and has never looked back, has never regressed to her old villainous behavior and on occasion has helped the show's versions of good guys. I'm satisfied in her character change of path, motives and goals. Is it redemption by tv standards, imo, yeah it is.
12-31-2017, 05:28 PM
(12-31-2017, 04:17 PM)Robyn Wrote: ...I think the better test for Adalind being a better person for her sake and the sake of her children would be for her to refuse Renard and BC despite knowing that Nick wouldn’t love her or want a relationship with her. The entire time she was at the BC house, Adalind kept holding on to the hope that she would get back to Nick. Would she have continued to reject Renard’s proposed arrangement had she known having a relationship with Nick wasn’t an option? Because I do question whether Adalind was motivated to actually be a better person or motivated to be the person she believed Nick would love. Wow, what a post. I think you clearly articulated what I had been in the back of my mind about Adalind for sometime. What a great post Robyn.
Oxford commas are so totally rad!.
(12-31-2017, 05:18 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: It's obvious Adalind's life would look different if Nick never reciprocated her feelings....I don’t see Adalind falling in love with Renard because Nick didn’t love her. Hopefully she’s learned Renard’s commitment isn’t influenced by love, or lack of, but by need. However, if Renard/Adalind entered an arrangement similar to Nick/Adalind, I could see Adalind trusting and loving Renard over time as Nick did with her. If Adalind didn’t develop feelings for Nick, I’d hope she had the same reaction to the Renard/BC proposal. Go because it gets her back with Diana but refuse to go along with their endeavor. I’d still want her to have the same objective to keep her children out of chaotic and dangerous situations, and joining their cause would have been the same as raising the children with the Royals - no freedom to do anything or go anywhere without approval. I get what you’re saying rpmaluki, and agree that Adalind rebuffing Renard wasn’t because Nick loved her and wanted her back at the loft. However, my issue is as it’s always been - Adalind needing to have confidence in Nick’s feeling for her rather than having confidence in herself as a woman and mother, and as an individual. Adalind told Nick she loved him and never did anything to contradict that. That should have been enough for her to back off and redirect her focus to setting up a life for her and Kelly instead of continuing to convince Nick to love and trust her. Nick’s reluctance to trust and/or love Adalind is his problem to work through. And should he work through those issues too late to matter, that’s also his problem. The reality is that Adalind was still in the same boat she was in at the end of S4 - nowhere to go and no resources other than depending on someone to provide for her and the children. I’m aware that Adalind’s hectic circumstances after Diana’s birth afforded little time for work and building a nest egg, but while the reason is valid it doesn’t improve her situation. What would Adalind have done if Nick concluded he’d never love her as more than his son’s mother? Return to their pre-sex, pre-love confession living rearrangement? Or heaven forbid, if he’d realized he still loved Juliette and wanted her back? Everything worked out for Adalind and the children because Nick eventually concluded he loved Adalind, not because Adalind created a situation that allowed their lives to move forward regardless of his decision. I agree with the murkiness of redemption, TV or real life. Redemption doesn’t require a big event recounting every transgression and amends. Recognize the need for change and take the necessay steps to make it happen. Everything else usually works itself out along the way. (12-31-2017, 05:28 PM)izzy Wrote:Thank you, izzy. And glad to see you on the forum.(12-31-2017, 04:17 PM)Robyn Wrote: ...I think the better test for Adalind being a better person for her sake and the sake of her children would be for her to refuse Renard and BC despite knowing that Nick wouldn’t love her or want a relationship with her. The entire time she was at the BC house, Adalind kept holding on to the hope that she would get back to Nick. Would she have continued to reject Renard’s proposed arrangement had she known having a relationship with Nick wasn’t an option? Because I do question whether Adalind was motivated to actually be a better person or motivated to be the person she believed Nick would love.Wow, what a post. I think you clearly articulated what I had been in the back of my mind about Adalind for sometime. What a great post Robyn.
"If my devils are to leave me, I am afraid my angels will take flight as well." Rainer Maria Rilke
01-02-2018, 05:12 AM
(12-29-2017, 09:48 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: This is a common thought I see amongst several posters. Adalind being a Hexenbiest keeps getting brought up so she's not looked at as anything but a generic witch. Actually, I think that's a fair assessment. She is a hexenbiest. That is her heritage (12-29-2017, 09:48 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: For the record, Adalind hadn't cast any illusions on Nick nor did she encourage Diana to for the entirety of seasons 5 and 6. The only time she told Diana to appear before Nick was to warn him of real incoming danger. What if Adalind cast the illusion on herself?
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
01-02-2018, 05:30 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018, 07:04 AM by Henry of green.)
She didn’t cast any spells on the show in the past 2 seasons on herself or any else, the show would have shown it , she only used her powers for helping the gang and herself. you again are coming up with unfounded ideas never presented in the show . In your alternative head canon version of the show you can have Adalind casting all the spells you want and there’s no problem with that but it doesn’t match the shows version of events.
How is is it a fair assement to judge her as a generic witch you don’t judge people by what they are but by what they do. For example You don’t judge all white people or black people the same no you judge them by the individual and their actions it’s no different in the Grimm world. Monroe is a blubad but you wouldn’t just judge him as a generic Blubad that would be ridiculous but somehow it’s okay to judge Adalind that way.
01-02-2018, 05:42 AM
I didn't write it out of bias, henry. I wrote it thinking with the mind of a woman who would do anything to protect her children.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
01-02-2018, 05:51 AM
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018, 05:55 AM by Henry of green.)
It’s not a fair to Judge her as generic Witch it’s actually deeply unfair to judge anyone like that as for illusions what has that got to do with protecting her children.
01-02-2018, 05:53 AM
If you were a witch and had powers, wouldn't you use them to keep your children safe?
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
|
|