(11-03-2015, 04:07 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote:If you want to see how many shades of white, black and gray there are, go to a paint store and look at all the color charts. There is pure evil in this world, and pure goodness also, but almost all of us have shades of white, gray and black in our lives. When the occasion arises, and we do not think there will be consequences, we can do very bad things. When the occasion arises, and we chose to do the painfully right thing, we can be capable of greatness. Usually we can do things between. Some time back a person fell onto the subway tracks in New York, a bystander jumped down and saved his life just before the train passed. Hero? He said he did it because he was going to do some overtime, needed the money, and didn't want to be delayed! Hero or just selfish? Sometimes it hard to tell why anyone does anything.(11-02-2015, 10:41 PM)eric Wrote: There is very little pure white or pure black in the real world. Remember, the original comics were for children, who see things in a simple yes or no fashion. We should all be working to remove as much of the dark spots in our lives as we can, but not be too surprised when we find a dark spot or two in our character. Like the old westerns, most of the white guys were good, and the red skins(they were not yet called Native Americans} were either bad or in league with the whites. In the Catholic church, they usually wait 5 years before declaring anyone a saint--things have a way of surfacing after a while. A pure white or pure black character would be dull and less complex. A true hero is one who strives to be good, who will fall on occasion, but continues to strives to become better.
OK, that first sentence I have to disagree with. Yes, there is a lot of gray in the world, but there are some things that are black and white!
If someone risks his/her life to save another life, is that gray?
If someone molests a child, is that gray?
I think that nowadays far to many people want to see "gray" where it does not exist. And not because they are trying to be all "nonjudgemental" but rather because of moral cowardice. Don't have to make a judgement, don't have to take a stand!!
Lots of smart and thoughtful responses to this question. I'm going to post my take from a perspective on the current societal, cultural, and economic conditions I am seeing in my country, the USA.
I think the characters on Grimm are representative of the fact that we are living in a period of big transition. Many old standards, customs, and belief systems upon which our ideas of morality have been based, are being questioned because they are are difficult to apply to the times. But they have not yet been replaced, creating a vacuum which is temporarily being filled with extreme behavior, i.e., celebrating violence as the answer to problems, the crumbling of decency codes of conduct toward our fellow man, and a sense of 'you're on your own' so anything goes in the pursuit of self-interest. Our programming choices are speaking to this, imo; consider how many apocalyptic films and shows there are out there now. Think it may also represent the average individual's anger at a unconscious feeling of the lack of power over controlling their own decisions versus that of the system - which is increasingly being directed by those powerful (aka wealthy) few at the top. I know I feel it now, but I didn't always have this sense.* I'd like to see the age of lawful good characters return. Not only because I prefer it, but also because it would reflect the formation of a new definition of morality we are struggling to fit into our era. *My husband and I are being fleeced like sheep by the banks now and that is probably provoking this statement. Feels just like being a cog in a wheel, after years of being proud to pay our taxes, responsible business owners and citizens.
"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation." Bertrand Russell - printed on a beer mat in "Shaun of The Dead".
11-04-2015, 10:04 AM
(11-04-2015, 08:06 AM)speakeasy Wrote: Lots of smart and thoughtful responses to this question. I'm going to post my take from a perspective on the current societal, cultural, and economic conditions I am seeing in my country, the USA.Hi Speakeasy, The relation of moral decay and decline of society is a debate topic. Here is a blog regarding the decline of Rome: http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2014/...ent-world/ The Grimm show provides evidence of current moral decay. For example Renard is a bastard. Diana and Kelly were born to Adalind but there is no marriage and no family to raise them. This is not a "new morality." The Biblical account of David, Bathsheba and Uriah was from 400 BC. Murder and adultery have consequences. I hope Grimm will present goodness and virtue as Nick's compass that leads to the demise of bad guys. New Guy
11-04-2015, 10:47 AM
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2015, 12:30 PM by wfmyers1207.)
@izzy. I think you are being just a bit hard on Nick. He suddenly found himself thrust into a world where fairy tale creatures, evil spells and the werrat are real things. Most peoples' heads would have exploded!
He finds out he's a Grimm. "Grimm? What the hell is a Grimm Aunt Marie?" "Jesus Christ Almighty! What the hell did I just see??!!" "Zauberbeist? The captain's a zauberbeist?! What the hell is a zauberbeist?" "She put a spell on Hank AND Wu?!!" "Wait just one damned minute! Magic spells actually work??!! "Who are these werrat assholes and why are they trying to kill me??!!!" " Nice to see you after thinking you were dead for nearly 20 years Mom! Also, nice to find your severed head on my living room floor!" "Great news!! Found out the woman I loved shagged the murdering bastard that killed you!!" "Keys. I've got two keys. They fit God only knows what, some damned where in Germany, and people I don't even know are trying to kill me for the damned things!!" "Yep, the last few years have been just peachy!!" "Praise the Lord!!"
"Gad! I'm such a genius! - Wile E. Coyote
11-04-2015, 01:48 PM
(11-04-2015, 10:47 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: @izzy. I think you are being just a bit hard on Nick. He suddenly found himself thrust into a world where fairy tale creatures, evil spells and the werrat are real things. Most peoples' heads would have exploded!Hey WF, Peachy? Not! The last few years have been Grimm. LOL. New Guy
11-04-2015, 06:16 PM
(11-04-2015, 08:06 AM)speakeasy Wrote: I'd like to see the age of lawful good characters return. Not only because I prefer it, but also because it would reflect the formation of a new definition of morality we are struggling to fit into our era. (11-04-2015, 10:04 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Speakeasy, Hi, New Guy, I'm a person who maintains a naturalistic worldview but has always admired persons of faith. I don't think adultery and murder are part of a new morality either, they've probably been around since the first cavemen began throwing rocks at the moon. I do think our times are seeing an evolution of the concept of morality that is making a departure from traditional ideas about it. But decency, fidelity and the golden rule never go out of fashion.
"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation." Bertrand Russell - printed on a beer mat in "Shaun of The Dead".
WfMyers--very good summary of Nick's life for the last 4 years. Other suggestions:
What do you mean the hair is wolf/human hybrid? Who in the lab is taking drugs? Why is everyone screaming GRIMM and asking me not to kill them? Hey guys, why don't you put those sickles down and we discuss this over a few beers? This is a lot of cool stuff my aunt left me. Maybe I can take it to the flea market and pay off my car. Poor Aunt Marie, she was so delusional at the end. It must have been her meds. Okay Hank, who put that mask on the perp? Very, very funny guys. Don't tell you don't see it, its the scariest thing i have ever seen. The amazing thing is that Nick kept sane and didn't go hide in the woods. He should be a little grimm and have trouble making "moral" decisions. (11-03-2015, 07:36 PM)izzy Wrote: My dearest deadly jellyfish, Hi Izzy- Even at 30 years ago being different than you are today, I would be inclined to believe you were still miles ahead of Nick in maturity and critical thinking. The issue I see with Nick is that he already has a baby in his life. His 'baby' is the life of a Grimm. Even though he hasn't a clue as to what it means to be a Grimm, he's willing to do anything to be one. It's his life, it's what keeps him going. His mother couldn't be a mother and a Grimm. She had to give him up. His aunt gave up being a Grimm to raise him. I don't think he can be a Grimm and a father at the same time. He loves being a Grimm too much.
The best way to frustrate a cyberbully is to ignore him.
11-05-2015, 03:15 PM
(11-05-2015, 11:56 AM)irukandji Wrote: The issue I see with Nick is that he already has a baby in his life. His 'baby' is the life of a Grimm. Even though he hasn't a clue as to what it means to be a Grimm, he's willing to do anything to be one. It's his life, it's what keeps him going. Interesting, but likely true. I never thought of it that way before. Very insighful...
I do not feel as some do that we are in a period of new moral decay. There always been moral decay, it just wasn't talked about so much. When I was a child I did not know what my parents were worried about, until I was drafted to be the bartender at their parties(no joke-I was mixing drinks at 8). I started to hear about all the hanky panky that was going on, people with marriage problems, drug problems, scandal that was not on the front page of the local paper. I heard about crooked politicans , only in it for themselves. When Vietnam began, many of my generation realized there were "leaders" who were willing for those of us who were non-elite being killed to further their power. I could go on, but there is no need to dwell on all the happy paths of the past. We are more willing to reveal everything today, when it used to just be hushed up around the kids. Thats how I sometimes get through the day, dwelling on all the Happy Happy, Joy Joy of my youth.
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