06-06-2018, 02:20 PM
(06-06-2018, 10:31 AM)New Guy Wrote:(06-05-2018, 10:47 PM)syscrash Wrote: New GuySyscrash,
Here is the problem with your position. Even the audience did not know Kenneth was going to kill Kelly until he did. Yet you go on and on as if Juliette planned some Kelly assassination. At no time was the audience even given the slightest hint that the assistance Kenneth was asking of Juliette would lead to death. In fact the show replayed the scene, having Chavez prove no one needed to die. Do you also realize Nick is the only character that has taken the position of blaming Juliette for Kelly's death. Consider this point when you blame Juliette. Everything she did could have ended with Kenneth chloroforming Kelly like Chavez did Nick. It was Kenneth that decided to decapitate Kelly. Even in the epilogue in case someone was not sure. In case someone may have thought Juliette could have been told off screen. The writers added the narrative confirming she did not know.
What you are asking is for us to blame Juliette because her assistance was used to kill Kelly. It is one thing to provide assistance in executing the kill. It is another for what you did to be used to kill.
In case you still don't see the difference lets use an example. It is one thing to load a gun hand it to someone and they use it to kill. It is another for someone to ask you to show them how to load a gun that they take an kill someone with. In both actions someone died because of your assistance. The difference, the first was the direct cause. The second was the consequence not the cause. We are responsible when was cause something. We are not responsible if our action have unforeseen consequences. Chavez proved Kelly dying was an unforeseen consequence of Juliettes assistance.
You should pay more attention to what actually happens in Grimm. Most of us knew who the Verrat are (per Grimm Wiki):
Quote:The Verrat serve at the pleasure of the Royal families. The Royals appoint the head of the organization as well as issuing orders which all Verrat agents must follow without question or face severe consequences up to and including pain of death. Verrat agents will not hesitate to kill fellow agents, even if their target is the head of the Verrat, if the order is given by the Royals. ("Synchronicity")http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/You_Don%27t_Know_Jack
[Underlie added]
Quote:Press ReleaseSyscrash, you claimed:
. . .
Elsewhere, Juliette decides to help her new ally even if it means hurting those around her.
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Synopsis
. . .
Nick, Hank, Monroe, and Wu arrive at the burned trailer ("Iron Hans") and go inside where they find mostly everything burned.
. . .
Juliette arrives at her and Nick's house and writes an email to Kelly that says Nick is in trouble, and he may be killed if she doesn't come. Juliette makes note that the house is safe and sends the message.
Nick, Hank, Monroe, and Wu work on getting items out of the trailer, and Wu asks Nick if he is going to go after Juliette, and he responds, "What do you think?"
Juliette gets a response from Kelly saying that she is on her way. Juliette then deletes the evidence.
. . .
Nick introduces Bud and Adalind, and Nick tells Bud nobody can know that she is there. Bud is then caught up on recent events with Adalind and Nick expecting a child and Nick and Juliette's breakup. Nick tells Bud not to tell Juliette anything if she contacts him and Hank tells Bud that Juliette wants Adalind dead.
. . .
Juliette informs Kenneth that Kelly believes Nick is in danger and is on her way. Juliette tells him not to underestimate Kelly, and he says he doesn't and tells Juliette he doesn't underestimate her either. Juliette turns around to leave, but Kenneth tells her that he'd prefer she'd stay and that there is an open room for her. Juliette states that he doesn't think Adalind is coming back, and Kenneth says he doesn't see why she would. He says Nick is probably taking good care of her now that he knows he's going to be a dad. Kenneth notices an ash mark on the back of Juliette's hand and asks, "Been burning some bridges?" Juliette tells him it was a little payback, and he says there will be a lot of that.
. . .
Nick arrives home with his gun drawn. He searches to see if Juliette is there and notices ash marks on the computer mouse.
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Juliette sits down with Kenneth and goes over the setup of her and Nick's house, and also tells him who lives in the surrounding houses.
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Nick calls Juliette, and she tells Kenneth, who is loading many guns with Verrat agents, but he tells her not to answer because "suffering is good for the soul." Nick leaves a message on her voice mail to tell her there is something that can help her, and then he throws the phone.
. . .
Nick answers, and it's Juliette, who has him on speaker with Kenneth nearby. Nick says they have a suppressant that will work and asks her to come to the spice shop, and she agrees to come.
. . .
Juliette arrives at the spice shop, and Juliette asks how they figured out how to make the suppressant, and Hank tells her the books from the trailer. Nick tells her it will work, and Juliette says they would have had to try it on another Hexenbiest to make sure it works. Rosalee hands Nick the jar with the suppressant, and he hands it to Juliette. She then causes the spice shop to shake, and Nick tells her to stop. The shaking stops, and Juliette asks if it looks like she need anyone's help. She tosses the jar into the air, causing it to levitate, and Rosalee tries to grab it, but Juliette throws her against a shelf with her telekinetic abilities. . The jar falls to the ground and breaks as Monroe woges. . Juliette smacks him across the face, again with her telekinesis, and Hank draws his gun, but Juliette causes it to fly out of his hands. Juliette asks, "When are you all gonna learn that I like who I am?" . Nick draws his gun and says they don't, and Juliette woges. She then makes Nick point his gun at Monroe and Rosalee. Monroe gets Rosalee out of the way, and Nick says he can't let go of his gun. Monroe freezes in fear as Nick's gun goes off.
Quote: Even the audience did not know Kenneth was going to kill Kelly until he did. Yet you go on and on as if Juliette planned some Kelly assassination. At no time was the audience even given the slightest hint that the assistance Kenneth was asking of Juliette would lead to death.The majority of the audience would know Kenneth and the Verrat were planning a violent crime. Juliette knew that as well. What orders was Prince Kenneth Alun Goderich Bowes-Lyon issuing to the Verrat in the hotel planning session?
The transcripts do not contain the orders. We do observe the orders being executed:
http://grimm.wikia.com/wiki/Headache
Quote:A man arrives home in his garage on his motorcycle and is attacked by Verrat agents. Other people are attacked in their houses as well, so Kenneth and Rispoli have a good view of Nick and Juliette's house as they wait for Kelly and Diana to arrive. Kenneth and Juliette arrive at the house, and Juliette shows him around. After they get to the bedroom, Juliette tells Kenneth, "If I'm going to be working with the Royal Family, you need to have a very clear understanding... of just how valuable I can be." She pushes him down onto the bed, and they begin making out.After Juliette and Kenneth listen as Rispoli confirms the murder of the neighbors, they fornicate in Nick's bed. If she didn't know the plan in advance, she had no problem with it and even had a sexual celebration.
Quote:Juliette is dropped off at the house while Kenneth, Rispoli, and another man watch from across the street. Rispoli tells Kenneth he didn't think Juliette would go this far, and Kenneth tells him he doesn't think there is a limit to what she'll do.Syscrash, I underlined the most vital parts that seem to have escaped you. Perhaps you can re-watch these scenes and discover what actually happened.
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Kelly and Diana pull up in front of the house, and Kelly calls Juliette, who tells her Nick isn't home but that the front door is unlocked. Kelly and Diana walk up to the house as a Verrat agent confirms it's them. Kenneth leaves the house across the street as Kelly and Diana enter the house. Kelly is ambushed soon after she shuts the front door. . Juliette listens from her room as the fight goes outside. . Juliette then slowly walks down the stairs where she finds a now slightly older Diana sitting in the middle of the room. Juliette picks her up as Kenneth comes in with blood on his face. He says, "We got her," referring to Kelly, and then walks over to Juliette and Diana and says the same thing.
. . .
In a car, Kenneth smiles and tells Juliette that this has been a rather good night overall. Diana turns to Juliette and asks where her mommy is, but Juliette and Kenneth don't say anything.
Regardless, please do not confuse presentation of facts as a statement of personal position.
N G
NG, great post, backed up with actual script from the show and not total BS about reading the writers mind.