05-28-2018, 07:53 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2018, 08:07 AM by Henry of green.)
(05-28-2018, 07:05 AM)Robyn Wrote:(05-27-2018, 08:38 PM)irukandji Wrote: I was thinking about Rachel's death and the threats Diana used before murdering her. She told Rachel she was not "her (Diana's) mommy and daddy".Diana’s powers had progressed beyond the maturity and understanding necessary to restrain them. She saw Rachael as a threat to the ‘happy family’ she wanted, and having the ability to eliminate that threat, she did. I don’t think she forced Adalind to watch, or manipulated her into believing it was a nightmare. Rather, Diana happily showed mommy that Rachael wouldn’t be taking daddy away from them. I’m not sure Diana would connect Rachael’s death to her father being accused. Despite her powers, Diana had a childlike mentality - If someone took her cookie, she’d take back her cookie. The consequences of overreacting to get her cookie isn’t considered.
She later forces Adalind to watch the murder, all the while leading her to believe it was a nightmare.
She set her own father up as the primary suspect in the murder.
I'm not sure I'm explaining this very clearly, but it seems to go along with the double standard Diana used when trying to make Eve uncomfortable with her questions about Kelly.
Was Diana so desperate to have her mother and father together, she would use any means possible (including manipulating voodoo dolls) in order to have a real family?
Or, was Diana incapable of bonding with her parents but yet punished them for abandoning her?
I think in the beginning Diana would have done anything to keep her parents together. It was after she bonded with Adalind that her mother’s happiness became equally important to her desire for mom and dad to be together.
I didn’t see any signs of Diana seeking punishment for her abandonment. In fact, the writers went out of their way to ensure how Diana was taken in S3 wasn’t mentioned. In S5, Adalind hated Renard for giving their daughter away but didn’t blame Kelly, Nick, and his friends for taking Diana.
(05-27-2018, 09:36 PM)Henry of green Wrote: Your above statement makes very little sense, if Diania was as aware of absoulotley everything as you claim why didn't she know Bonaparte choked Adalind until she seen the actual bruises on Adalinds neck. Also why did she allow the scobbies to take her in the first place, yes she was only a new born at that point but she had great powers already and clearly was capable of complex thougth even then as she rememberd Meisner from that time. Also why did Diana ask Adalind If it was Renard that bruised her neck if she knows everything as you claim.The writers didn’t present Diana as being aware of everything all the time. She was presented as being aware of only what a specific scene required. Which makes the character difficult to analyze objectively.
In S3, the infant Diana sensed Meisner touch her mother’s face and showed him the danger of uninvited touching. But because the S6 episode needed the guy to abscond with Diana, she was clueless to his approach. Diana projected her image into the woods one day after she was born because she connected firewood to keeping the cabin warm. The power Diana demonstrated in S5 when meeting Adalind at the warehouse clearly demonstrated that she had the means to leave the safe house at any time. Yet, because the storyline required BC to take Diana, she remained at the safe house.
(05-28-2018, 12:08 AM)dicappatore Wrote: If anyone wants to connect Diana's reference to any "other mother" figure besides Kelly, knock yourself out. It is amazing how some want to make an argument when they can't even get their scenes and timeline right.I don’t think anyone challenged that Diana’s “other mommy” referred to Kelly. Only that the scene wasn’t about Diana/Kelly. It was about Juliette’s reaction to Diana’s questions about Kelly.
By that time, Diana was coming to terms with her mother wanting them to live with Nick. She knew Kelly was Nick’s mother, and, Adalind had never spoken unfavorably about Kelly. If the scene was meant to express Diana’s feelings for Kelly, the question would have been better posed to Nick and/or Adalind. Not only would it express Diana’s bond with Kelly, it would make an emotional connection between Diana and Nick. That Diana questioned the one person directly connected to Kelly’s death suggests the scene was about Juliette’s reaction, her guilt over her part in Kelly’s demise.
(05-28-2018, 05:07 AM)New Guy Wrote:New Guy, if we’re going to debate Adalind’s opinion of Kelly at the end of S4 and the first episode of S5, you have to at least give the appearance of objectivity. Take my entire post into account, not just the last line.(05-27-2018, 06:36 AM)Robyn Wrote: I think it's more likely that Adalind suggested naming the baby after Nick's mother in order to enhance Nick's emotional connection to the baby, which might assist their transition from hated enemy to supportive parents.Hi Robyn,
If Adalind was trying to "enhance Nick's emotional connection to the baby" she would have chosen to name him Nicholas Burkhardt, Jr. If she wanted to cozy up to the Royals, she would have chosen Sean, Frederich or Kenneth. Ugh!
I remain steadfast in my opinion presented in post #2.
N G
Quote:I think this is an overreach considering it occurred immediately after Kelly's birth when neither Nick or Adalind were sure how they'd proceed. I don't doubt if having to choose the lesser of two evils that Adalind would prefer Kelly over the Royals, but that doesn't suggest Adalind held the woman who kidnapped her baby in high regard. Just two or three episodes prior to Kelly's birth, Adalind was telling her dead mother that the Grimm and his mother stole her daughter.
I think it's more likely that Adalind suggested naming the baby after Nick's mother in order to enhance Nick's emotional connection to the baby, which might assist their transition from hated enemy to supportive parents.
I took into account Adalind’s overall attitude and interaction with the group from the time she went to Nick for protection in S4 until Nick returned to the hospital after the baby was born in S5E1. At no time did Adalind express admiration for anyone who had stolen Diana. It was in S5E2 that we saw the first hints of Adalind’s opinion of Nick, his mother, and his friends begin to change.
That you admire Kelly, the Grimm/the good guy character does not provide reason for Adalind, the Grimm’s adversary/bad guy character to admire Kelly. Adalind was fighting for her life, the life of her second child, and the hope of finding her first child. She would have said and done anything to ensure Nick’s help. That you would see Nick as a great guy who would help a defenseless Adalind does not provide reason for her to set aside their volatile history and make that assumption.
Robyn, you are correct Adalinds opinon of Nick didn't change fully until season 5, however its pretty claer she showed real empathy towrds Nick after Kelly's daeth in 4x22. Adalind even went as far as saying she was sorry kelly had died, also I got a very honest and akward vibe from Adalind in that scene were she consoled Nick about his moms death it didn't appear she was being minipulitive at all unlike the 4x19 precint scene were it was clear she was trying to manipulate Nick. Personally I feel like late season 4 is when Adalinds view of Nick slowly began to change.