What Juliette 'Knew': Kelly's death

[Devegs]

To open up a can of worms yet again. Another take on this:

I thought Juliette looked a little happy that Nick escaped the royals, almost proud that he did. My take was that she was a little happy because she still loved him despite her raging desire to punish him for what she perceived his crimes against her where. However, the character could have been happy that Nick escaped so she could go back to confront him in a fight so as to finish him off herself. Like she admitted later to Nick, she was intent on killing him that night when Trubel stopped her.

Anyway, whatever her reason was for returning (sorrow/love or to fight), she sees him come into the house and he is overwhelmed with such deep sadness while staring at the box containing his mother’s head. That had to have put a damper on whichever idea she had come in with. So she tells to him that she didn’t know Kenneth was going to do that to Kelly.

I think Juliette believed herself when she said it. It was a half-truth. She didn’t know that Kenneth would chop off Kelly’s head but she had been part of planning the deadly attack on Kelly to get Diana. There could only have been two outcomes for Kelly that night. Each ending with the same result. At best Kelly would have escaped mortally wounded or she would have been killed during the attack. Juliette had not cared about the consequence to Kelly during the planning. All she had cared about at the time was punishing Adalind and Nick. So while she may not have known that Kelly’s head would have been chopped off, she knew that Kelly was going to face a fatal attack.

Nick's response to that was, “she trusted you”. Letting Juliette know that he saw her as being complicit in Kelly’s death. I felt Juliette had been overwhelmed by the weight of his words when she asked Nick to kill her. When he wouldn’t or rather couldn’t kill her, it pissed her. In her eyes he was doing what he always did, taking the high road (grimverse version). It was now fully back to the plan of taking him down and making him pay. He was making her look like the villain when she felt that he was the villain in her story. Worse, he then tells her he is done (with her!). She didn’t need his contempt or pity, what she needed was to make him pay for her pain.

[rpmaluki]

I sort of agree on most of what you wrote. I believe she hated Nick for the state she was in and she hated the fact that she still loved him. That despite everything she'd done up to that point, it always came back to Nick. It's a lot easier to put the blame on others than face the reality of one's actions. Hence the last second taunt when he can't do the one thing she can't do herself, and that is to put an end to her miserable life.

[New Guy]

To open up a can of worms yet again. Another take on this:

I thought Juliette looked a little happy that Nick escaped the royals, almost proud that he did. My take was that she was a little happy because she still loved him despite her raging desire to punish him for what she perceived his crimes against her where. However, the character could have been happy that Nick escaped so she could go back to confront him in a fight so as to finish him off herself. Like she admitted later to Nick, she was intent on killing him that night when Trubel stopped her.

Anyway, whatever her reason was for returning (sorrow/love or to fight), she sees him come into the house and he is overwhelmed with such deep sadness while staring at the box containing his mother’s head. That had to have put a damper on whichever idea she had come in with. So she tells to him that she didn’t know Kenneth was going to do that to Kelly.

I think Juliette believed herself when she said it. It was a half-truth. She didn’t know that Kenneth would chop off Kelly’s head but she had been part of planning the deadly attack on Kelly to get Diana. There could only have been two outcomes for Kelly that night. Each ending with the same result. At best Kelly would have escaped mortally wounded or she would have been killed during the attack. Juliette had not cared about the consequence to Kelly during the planning. All she had cared about at the time was punishing Adalind and Nick. So while she may not have known that Kelly’s head would have been chopped off, she knew that Kelly was going to face a fatal attack.

Nick's response to that was, “she trusted you”. Letting Juliette know that he saw her as being complicit in Kelly’s death. I felt Juliette had been overwhelmed by the weight of his words when she asked Nick to kill her. When he wouldn’t or rather couldn’t kill her, it pissed her. In her eyes he was doing what he always did, taking the high road (grimverse version). It was now fully back to the plan of taking him down and making him pay. He was making her look like the villain when she felt that he was the villain in her story. Worse, he then tells her he is done (with her!). She didn’t need his contempt or pity, what she needed was to make him pay for her pain.

Hi Devegs,
Good thread and good post.
We know she sent the betrayal email, was in the hotel with Kenneth and the Verrat, and gave details about Nick's house and the neighbors. We know she was with Kenneth as the Verrat were killing the neighbors and radioing him and Juliette as they died. She did not say anything about those people being killed. In fact, after knowing about those murders she provides Kenneth with a romp in Nick's bed.
This all happened before Kelly arrives and checks to see if it is safe. Juliette lures Kelly into the house where she is immediately ambushed, beaten, killed and decapitated. Again there is no reaction from Juliette.
Your above comment:

There could only have been two outcomes for Kelly that night. Each ending with the same result. At best Kelly would have escaped mortally wounded or she would have been killed during the attack. Juliette had not cared about the consequence to Kelly during the planning. All she had cared about at the time was punishing Adalind and Nick. So while she may not have known that Kelly’s head would have been chopped off, she knew that Kelly was going to face a fatal attack.

is IMO ironclad. For all we know the original plan was to put Kelly's head on a stake and she was disappointed Kenneth just left it in a box. The evidence of her knowing Kelly was to be killed is compelling and would likely prove conclusive in a criminal trial.
N G

[rpmaluki]

Maybe she only said she didn't know Kenneth would do that (succeed in killing, then beheading Kelly) because she expected Kelly to survive the ambush. She'd be badly wounded but alive. Because I find it hard to believe she was oblivious to Kenneth’s true intentions, her neighbours' deaths were testament to what Kenneth intended for Kelly. He didn't want any witness or even the possibility of someone calling for help once they attacked Kelly since it was likely Nick would show up immediately and assist his mother.

[Hell Rell]

To open up a can of worms yet again. Another take on this:

Nick's response to that was, “she trusted you”. Letting Juliette know that he saw her as being complicit in Kelly’s death. I felt Juliette had been overwhelmed by the weight of his words when she asked Nick to kill her. When he wouldn’t or rather couldn’t kill her, it pissed her. In her eyes he was doing what he always did, taking the high road (Grimmverse). It was now fully back to the plan of taking him down and making him pay. He was making her look like the villain when she felt that he was the villain in her story. Worse, he then tells her he is done (with her!). She didn’t need his contempt or pity, what she needed was to make him pay for her pain.

That's a great way of looking at it and I'm inclined to agree. Juliette did feel like Nick was the villain and the realization of what happened to Kelly and Nick not finishing her off because of it backfired on her and she had to face what she really was and it wasn't pretty so it could only end as ugly as did.

[Devegs]

My take on it was that Juliette joined the royals to get revenge on Adalind and Nick. For Adalind, the idea was to take Adalind's baby (Diana) away from her for good. Once the royals had Diana, there was no way that Adalind would get her back. For Nick, the idea was to inflict as much pain on him by inflicting pain on his mother. If Kelly got hurt, Nick would have been hurt. Kelly would have fought hard to prevent the royals from taking Diana. There was no way Kelly was going to handover the child and walk away. Even if she did, would Kenneth have let her walk away? However, Juliette did not care about what happened to Kelly as long as whatever happened was sufficient enough to hurt Nick. Like I said, she planned a deadly attack on Kelly with the royals. However, when faced with Nick's sorrow, she wanted to absolve herself of some of the guilt in his eyes. Her words were, "I didn't know they would do that". My emphasis on that. She knew they would do something to Kelly based on the planning involved. That's why I said she told a half truth. I felt she was only referring to that as in Kelly's head being chopped off and placed in a box for Nick to find. However, she also seemed to be implying that she didn't know about the attack that she had been involved in planning. That's why I said I think she believed herself in the moment and also why Nick's response to her must have cut her like a knife. "She trusted you!".

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... Juliette did feel like Nick was the villain and the realization of what happened to Kelly and Nick not finishing her off because backfired on her and she had to face what she really was and it wasn't pretty so it could only end as ugly as did.

I agree.

[dicappatore]

My take on that part when she claims, she didn’t know Kenneth would do that to her applied to her decapitated head placed in the box, not her death. She clearly knew and planned for her demise.

She well knew, Kelly would give up her life to protect Diana. This is why, this argument that she was unaware she was going to be killed is ridiculous.

[irukandji]

I keep reading these threads and see no conclusive evidence proving that Juliette knew Kelly was buying it that night.

I would also like to suggest that there was another option. The royals may have intended on keeping Kelly alive as a hostage to lure Nick in. Kelly herself may have realized this and escalated things to the death, hence Kenneth's "taking it outside".

If Kelly was taken as hostage, there would be no alternative for Nick but to surrender.

[dicappatore]

I do have an inquiry for some of you contributors. WTF is a "Half-Truth". I’ve seen it used a few times. Is it like "Almost Pregnant"? I am a simple man and actually perplexed on that catch-phrase. I really would like to have it explicated to me because of my simplistic existence.

[Devegs]

There was an element of truth in what Juliette said. She probably didn't know that Kelly's head would end up in a box waiting for Nick. That was part was probably true since I believe that she believed what she was saying. However, I thought she wasn't being completely honest since she didn't tell Nick that they (Kenneth and her) had covered all bases in the attack planned on Kelly that night. So while her statement may have been the truth from her point of view, there was an inherent level of dishonesty. Juliette revealed only the part that could technically be true - in regards to what she knew. She was telling the truth while being dishonest. A half truth from my point of view. She did not give Nick full disclosure. Again, she did not come completely clean when she said afterwards, "I thought they only wanted Diana". She omitted other relevant information.

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I keep reading these threads and see no conclusive evidence proving that Juliette knew Kelly was buying it that night.

I would also like to suggest that there was another option. The royals may have intended on keeping Kelly alive as a hostage to lure Nick in. Kelly herself may have realized this and escalated things to the death, hence Kenneth's "taking it outside".

If Kelly was taken as hostage, there would be no alternative for Nick but to surrender.

Why would the royals want to lure Nick in or be interested in getting Nick to surrender if they were only interested in Diana? They could have just taken Diana and left. According to Juliette, the royals were only interested in getting Diana.