05-24-2013, 02:05 PM
Poll: Did you like tonight's episode "Goodnight, Sweet Grimm"? You do not have permission to vote in this poll. |
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Like | 14 | 82.35% | |
Meh | 3 | 17.65% | |
Dislike | 0 | 0% | |
Total | 17 vote(s) | 100% |
* You voted for this item. | [Show Results] |
05-24-2013, 04:00 PM
(05-23-2013, 07:41 PM)GrimmForum Wrote: - Eric zombifying his guard and terrorizing Portland I think proves to us that the Royals are badI have to disagree with this one. Like any organization or group, one member is not sufficient data for categorizing the entire group. If HellJacket makes misogynist and racist comments, that does not mean the entire Grimm Forum is misogynist and racist. It just means I am. We already have plenty of evidence that Eric is a bad guy, but so far only Eric and Renard are the two Royals that we've encountered. Renard doesn't seem so bad, now does he? (Though he's most likely very different from the rest of his family). (05-23-2013, 07:41 PM)GrimmForum Wrote: - When Wu got bit by the zombie, I thought he was going to turn into one too. I guess these aren't actual zombies, like the ones on the Walking Dead.These are old school zombies. Old school zombies only turn with the help of a necromancer or a voodoo witch doctor (See, e.g., the movie White Zombie). Romero zombies are really dumb vampires (i.e., the "bite" that turns you undead originated in vampire legends and was subsequently used in I am Legend, which Romero modeled his movie after). (05-23-2013, 07:41 PM)GrimmForum Wrote: - I'm looking forward to seeing Adalind getting her powers backI'm still annoyed with a Grimm promo from a few episodes ago about "The Beast is Back" with what even appeared as a scene with Adalind becoming a hexenbiest again. Several episodes later, the beast is still not back. False advertising.
05-24-2013, 08:09 PM
Those are all very good points HellJacket, you've changed my views on the Royals. I didn't realize there were different kind of zombies before the infectious ones. I've never thought of Zombies as brain-dead vampires, but that's an interesting thought.
As for Adalind, I remember that promo too. Considering Adalind lost her hexenbiest side and is now just human, I wonder if that could mean Hexenbiests in the past were originally humans that used magic to turn themselves into Wesen. Or maybe, I'm just thinking way outside of the box here lol.
05-25-2013, 01:07 AM
(05-24-2013, 04:00 PM)HellJacket Wrote:(05-23-2013, 07:41 PM)GrimmForum Wrote: - Eric zombifying his guard and terrorizing Portland I think proves to us that the Royals are badI have to disagree with this one. Like any organization or group, one member is not sufficient data for categorizing the entire group. If HellJacket makes misogynist and racist comments, that does not mean the entire Grimm Forum is misogynist and racist. It just means I am. We already have plenty of evidence that Eric is a bad guy, but so far only Eric and Renard are the two Royals that we've encountered. Renard doesn't seem so bad, now does he? (Though he's most likely very different from the rest of his family). Based on comments in show, it seems that Eric's mother is a nasty piece of work as well (she attempted to have Renard and his mother killed). The Royals are also willing to be connected with the Verrat and Dragon's Tongue (Kimura was working for the latter, iirc). Know a man by looking at his friends, as the saying goes. Relatives and coworkers, in this case. Of course, that could just be two or three sour apples in a basket of fresh ones, but *shrug* Regarding the adverts/promos with Adalind, I think that "beast" might have just been a euphemism for ... something else starting with a B. "I can feed the caterpillar, I can whisper through the chrysalis, but what hatches follows its own nature and is beyond me."
-- Hannibal (TV show)
05-25-2013, 09:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2013, 10:00 AM by HellJacket.)
(05-25-2013, 01:07 AM)pale boy Wrote: The Royals are also willing to be connected with the Verrat and Dragon's Tongue (Kimura was working for the latter, iirc). Know a man by looking at his friends, as the saying goes. Relatives and coworkers, in this case. Of course, that could just be two or three sour apples in a basket of fresh ones, but *shrug*While "know a man by looking at his friends" is sometimes alright evidence, I have a problem with using it in this case. A throwaway statement about "being connected" is not enough evidence (especially when it's likely simple hearsay) to show that ALL Royals are friends with the Verrat and the Dragon's Tongue. And the "ALL Royals" is the discussion here. Based on Eric, I fully admit that some Royals are really bad apples, but I just draw the line at lumping them all as some uniform mass of malevolence at this point (I could always change my mind later on). Think of it like national diplomacy. The United States at one time or another has been connected with Stalin's Soviet Union, Pinochet's Chile, Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and countless dictators. Sometimes, the relationship is fairly cold and antagonistic (e.g., the Soviet Union after WW2). Sometimes, the relationship is fairly friendly (e.g., Iraq in the war against Iran in the 1980s). In every situation, the United States is technically "connected" to the other country through diplomatic relations, but that doesn't necessarily make them friends. Organizations/people don't always get to choose the people they work with (but sometimes they do). In regard to mafia families (the best analogy I can think of to the Royals), you get this same setup. Some mobsters were essentially serial killers. Some were just business men who wanted peace, and who even got really sick of the entire setup. It's very difficult to categorize the entire organized crime syndicate as a homogenous and nefarious group. I think the same applies here with the Royals. And to reiterate, there are seven different Royal families. They're likely as different as the Seven Houses of Westeros if you follow the Game of Thrones. /likely
05-26-2013, 12:24 AM
Hm... good point that the different families could vary from killers to business people, but all the families in the mafia were involved in criminal activity. I wonder how the Royal Families stack up against the Council.
05-26-2013, 06:38 AM
I think its pretty easy (and safe) to assume that the Royals are bad guys. Granted we still know very little about the Royals. But what little we know about them so far puts them pretty solidly in the bad guys camp.
Sure we might not want to over-generalize, be biased, or fall prey to stereotyping but so far we have no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.
05-26-2013, 08:06 AM
lets see... royals are so far guilty of torture, racism, maybe even a little genocide... KIDNAPPING NICK... I'd say they just might be bad guys...
05-26-2013, 11:13 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-26-2013, 11:17 AM by HellJacket.)
(05-26-2013, 06:38 AM)Lou Wrote: Sure we might not want to over-generalize, be biased, or fall prey to stereotyping but so far we have no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.Remember, arguing that there's no proof that other Royals (i.e., besides Eric) are bad IS NOT THE SAME as arguing that the Royals are good or should be "give[n] the benefit of the doubt." There's no default position here. Also, neither side has the burden of proof. I totally agree that I would not trust a Royal, but that probably goes for 90% of the wessen we've seen. Hell, Monroe and Hap are proof that categorizing an entire group is difficult in the Grimm world. (05-26-2013, 08:06 AM)grimmfreak Wrote: les see... royals are so far guilty of . . . KIDNAPPING NICK... I'd say they just might be bad guys...I would like to say that if you take Nick's actions out of context, he's a dirty cop. Kidnapping a dangerous rogue grimm should earn the Royals kudos. Nick's Dirty Laundry List 1.) Lying to federal agents 2.) Disposing of a murder weapon 3.) Accomplice to the murder of Edgar Waltz 4.) Conspiracy to Commit Murder of several Hundjaegers 5.) Murders of several hundjaegars 6.) Killed the ufologist in cold blood 7.) Tampered with evidence in an ongoing police investigation (Coins of Zakynthos) Objectively, Nick is a pretty bad guy, wouldn't you think?
05-26-2013, 11:55 AM
(05-26-2013, 11:13 AM)HellJacket Wrote: I would like to say that if you take Nick's actions out of context, he's a dirty cop. Kidnapping a dangerous rogue grimm should earn the Royals kudos. true, but all this can be explained. If you can come up with a scenario that explains away torture racism and genocide than I submit to your opinion |
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