(06-09-2014, 09:06 PM)pale boy Wrote:

(06-09-2014, 07:46 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: The thing that disturbed me about this episode was the cremation of the wesen mummy at the end and everyone acting as if this were a reverent thing to do. To the ancient Egyptians, the destruction of the body meant condemning that person to eternal oblivion. That is why they took such great pains to preserve the body of the deceased.

The worst punishment that they could inflict was to execute a criminal and then dismember their corpse and throw it to the crocodiles in the Nile River. Only the most vile criminals were subjected to that. The Wesen Council couldn't find a crypt to place this persons remains in?

Maybe wesen have an over-arching belief system that trumps local or ancient religions? That's the best possible explanation I can think of ... Otherwise it's just modern disregard and disrespect for ancient cultures. The fact that they burned something with that amount of historical significances is a bit sucky.

(06-11-2014, 07:24 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: Well, that doesn't work for me because in several episodes we have seen wesen participating in the overall cultural beliefs. In the first season Monroe says to Nick: "Of course I go to church, dont you?" And then in season 3 episode 5, with the corrupt preacher and his wesen congregation. So. it would seem that there are many wesen with different beliefs. Wesen Hindus, Christians, Jews, etc.. The only thing that might link them together would be a strong reverence for ancestors (re: the beati paoli), but this too would preclude the destruction of the mummified anubis. Reverence for ancestors almost always includes the preservation of their remains.

(06-09-2014, 09:06 PM)pale boy Wrote: The fact that they burned something with that amount of historical significances is a bit sucky.

(06-11-2014, 10:12 PM)Gaultheria Wrote:

(06-09-2014, 09:06 PM)pale boy Wrote: The fact that they burned something with that amount of historical significances is a bit sucky.

Wesen seem to keep track of their history and genealogy more thoroughly than we do, so something that's ancient history to us could feel like recent family history to them. Also, since Woge is an adrenaline reaction, seeing a dead Wesen's face stuck in an expression of terror or anger or pain -- whatever it is, it's not peace -- has got to be deeply, instinctively disturbing. They can't just close the dead person's eyes to make it look like sleep; burning the body must seem like the only way to let the dead move beyond the torture that froze that expression in place.

(06-12-2014, 02:44 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote:

(06-11-2014, 10:12 PM)Gaultheria Wrote:

(06-09-2014, 09:06 PM)pale boy Wrote: The fact that they burned something with that amount of historical significances is a bit sucky.

Wesen seem to keep track of their history and genealogy more thoroughly than we do, so something that's ancient history to us could feel like recent family history to them. Also, since Woge is an adrenaline reaction, seeing a dead Wesen's face stuck in an expression of terror or anger or pain -- whatever it is, it's not peace -- has got to be deeply, instinctively disturbing. They can't just close the dead person's eyes to make it look like sleep; burning the body must seem like the only way to let the dead move beyond the torture that froze that expression in place.

Yes, this could be a very valid point. If wesen saw the preservation of a person in full woge as vile and sacrilegious, which they appear to do, then the destruction of the remains might be the only way to "wipe that slate clean". Who knows, perhaps some wesen believe that if a person is trapped in full woge at the moment of death, then their soul is trapped as well. Hmm.

(06-13-2014, 01:30 AM)grimmfreak Wrote: In the matter of wesen culture valuing their ancestry/history more than us. I think it depends greatly on the culture you're from. For instance in many areas of the world someone's heritage can be paramount.

In India for instance if you're born an untouchable you're basically screwed... Closer to home, many Mormon's trace their ancestry with a fervor bordering on fanaticism. As I understand it this is due to the belief that one can help redeem one's ancestors by proxy and thus help the whole family line.
I find sociology to be an interesting hobby.

In Russia you can go to a museum and see Lenin's brain (along with many other noteworthy historical brains) displayed in formaldehyde in a great big jar. Many people in this country would find this appalling.

I do not find it at all far fetched for some community to find it disgusting that we display mummies the way we do in reality. Thus the idea of a wesen being offended by such a practice would not be surprising at all

(06-13-2014, 03:48 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote:

(06-13-2014, 01:30 AM)grimmfreak Wrote: In the matter of wesen culture valuing their ancestry/history more than us. I think it depends greatly on the culture you're from. For instance in many areas of the world someone's heritage can be paramount.

In India for instance if you're born an untouchable you're basically screwed... Closer to home, many Mormon's trace their ancestry with a fervor bordering on fanaticism. As I understand it this is due to the belief that one can help redeem one's ancestors by proxy and thus help the whole family line.
I find sociology to be an interesting hobby.

In Russia you can go to a museum and see Lenin's brain (along with many other noteworthy historical brains) displayed in formaldehyde in a great big jar. Many people in this country would find this appalling.

I do not find it at all far fetched for some community to find it disgusting that we display mummies the way we do in reality. Thus the idea of a wesen being offended by such a practice would not be surprising at all

Yes, your final point is very valid. I have a degree in history and can understand the scientific curiosity that leads to archeological research. But, I've always been ambivalent about removing and displaying human remains. These were once living people who were laid to rest by those who loved and respected them. It seems they should be allowed to rest in peace. I think how I would feel if someone dug up my grandmother.

(06-22-2014, 08:52 AM)Starfury Wrote:

(06-13-2014, 03:48 PM)wfmyers1207 Wrote:

(06-13-2014, 01:30 AM)grimmfreak Wrote: In the matter of wesen culture valuing their ancestry/history more than us. I think it depends greatly on the culture you're from. For instance in many areas of the world someone's heritage can be paramount.

In India for instance if you're born an untouchable you're basically screwed... Closer to home, many Mormon's trace their ancestry with a fervor bordering on fanaticism. As I understand it this is due to the belief that one can help redeem one's ancestors by proxy and thus help the whole family line.
I find sociology to be an interesting hobby.

In Russia you can go to a museum and see Lenin's brain (along with many other noteworthy historical brains) displayed in formaldehyde in a great big jar. Many people in this country would find this appalling.

I do not find it at all far fetched for some community to find it disgusting that we display mummies the way we do in reality. Thus the idea of a wesen being offended by such a practice would not be surprising at all

Yes, your final point is very valid. I have a degree in history and can understand the scientific curiosity that leads to archeological research. But, I've always been ambivalent about removing and displaying human remains. These were once living people who were laid to rest by those who loved and respected them. It seems they should be allowed to rest in peace. I think how I would feel if someone dug up my grandmother.

This has always been a problem once you follow the scientific path it becomes difficult to give sway to what you then deem superstition. Being of a more scientific bent myself I've always lent towards the scientists view point, that to understand the present we have to study and understand the past, though the display of the dead does border on the morally ambiguous. If there is scientific merit in the research then display of your finding would be appropriate, otherwise it becomes like the Cabinet of Curiosities or Kunstkabinett from the past which were in alot of cases freakshows for the amusement of the public.

However, I see the primary motivation for the removal of the remains not being cultural, it is much more Machiavellian, it is the protection of the Wesen society from the Kehrseite. The leaders of the Beati Paoli probably propagandize to there prospective members this romantic vision of righting some mythical wrong, so you get the the required fanatics on the ground to do what is necessary to advance your aims. but in the end it is a simple political agenda being played out. If those remains did not potentially jeopardized the entire Wesen community would anyone really have cared, I think not. Take the case of the Grausen, what was the Wesen councils response to a possible risk to their society, sending an assassin to destroy the threat. I wouldn't be surprised if the Beati Paoli were an unofficially sanctioned group by the Wesen council to facilitate certain distasteful acts whilst keeping their hands clean!