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+---- Thread: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus (/Thread-S03E08-Twelve-Days-of-Krampus)
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - droid327 - 12-16-2013
(12-15-2013, 02:20 PM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote: Very interesting! I think you could compare La Llorona with Krampus, both are ghosts, only Krampus has got an "host": the photographer from Salt Lake City. La Llorona just vanished at midnight, Krampus left his host. And they both had a specific date for appearing/disappearing.
Well isn't that all that Wesen are, as Monroe originally explained it? An animal/natural "spirit" in a human body?
Llorona actually disappeared, completely, right in front of Nick...that cant be explained by anything resembling the kinds of abilities we know wesen to have. All Krampus did was un-woge. And they made it clear that this "host" had been turning into Krampus every year, it wasn't like the "spirit of Krampus" went from person to person, which admittedly would have been a lot cooler and more spooky, as well as not leaving the whole loose end of what to do with the guy
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - speakeasy - 12-20-2013
I didn't enjoy this one very much and had to resist covering my eyes when Krampus was on screen, but it's not that it wasn't well done, just didn't appeal to me.
Wonder if Renard was caught on the security camera he spotted in Adalind's room - sort of negates the point of requesting a secret meeting with her if he was, and it looked like it was trained on him. Unless he wanted to be seen for whatever purpose.
The "Rosalee doesn't enjoy Christmas" part was alright with me - and I like her new hairstyle and enjoyed the cute scene between the girls.
Nick and Hank got overzealous with Skakel-Claus and scared the kiddies - bad form, guys! But Nick's decision to turn the Krampus over to the Wesen Council for handling was brilliant in my view, showing both compassion and political savvy in building a means of cooperation with that very powerful group. That's probably a bridge too far in viewer speculation, but I think they're going to figure in prominently in days to come and the little band can use some allies.
If we don't get real progress on the Vienna front during the next episode, I predict that folks are going to get testy; I think that we had to be given some background to set the stage and it's been done. Now let the games begin.
Welcome to all the new posters and Happy Holidays, everyone
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - HellJacket - 12-20-2013
(12-16-2013, 06:51 AM)droid327 Wrote: Llorona actually disappeared, completely, right in front of Nick...that cant be explained by anything resembling the kinds of abilities we know wesen to have.
This is not true at all, unless you exclude Hexenbiest from the wessen phylum. Adalind and company are constantly doing crap that violates every known law of physics as well as the abilities shown by animal-wessen. Let me list a few.
1. Losing her entire set of powers and which caused a supernatural apparition to exit her body upon having a spec of grimm blood enter her body.
2. Having a spell on Hank that's tied to Adalind's existence miles away, and where the spell suddenly vanishes upon Adalind losing her powers.
3. All the stuff involving Adalind getting her powers back by cutting out a person's heart as well as the flower field, etc.
If you said La Llorona was a hexenbiest, I'd have a hard time proving you wrong.
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - droid327 - 12-20-2013
(12-20-2013, 11:13 AM)HellJacket Wrote: If you said La Llorona was a hexenbiest, I'd have a hard time proving you wrong.
You cant just say that Hexenbiesten are omnipotent, though, you have to assume that they cant do something until its demonstrated they can...everything they've done so far falls under their "witch" archetype - enchantments, charms, potions, dark pacts with fell spirits, that sort of thing. Witches are not known to disappear/teleport/phase/etc. at will, I think most viewers would agree they wouldn't "expect" a Hexenbiest to be able to do that until the writers specifically gave them such a power. Charming the children, definitely Hexenbiestish, but not the last part with Nick in the river.
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - pale boy - 12-21-2013
(12-15-2013, 05:15 AM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote: Did Nick release this poor Santa Schakal he arrested at the Bratwurst-stall?
Don't think they mentioned anything about the dude after he had his face punched in. I hope he sues.
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - Gretel Hanselsister - 12-22-2013
I don't think La Llorona is a hexenbiest.
First: she didn't look like a hexenbiest in woge, not at all. A hexenbiest-woge shows missing flesh, most of all lips, I think a woged hexenbiest isn't able to shut her mouth (I wonder how they are able to speak at all
)La Llorona looked very disgusting, she wins my gold medal for "the ugliest Grimm creature ever", but she didn't look hexenbiestish.
I still think La Llorona has got more in common with Krampus. A hexenbiest includes a normal person and a hexenbiest-spirit, but they are aware of each other and the body feels incomplete without the spirit. La Llorona doesn't need a body at all, she can take solid form and can vanish like a ghost as well. Adalinds hexenbiest-spirit vanished and she can't get it back by herself, otherwise she wouln't need Stefanias help.
(12-21-2013, 06:28 PM)HellJacket Wrote: However, logic would assume that if hexenbiest were omnipotent, and Adalind still had reason to get revenge on Nick, she would have gotten revenge on Nick (barring another motivation unknown to us) as soon as she got her powers back. Therefore, since Adalind has her powers back but hasn't gotten revenge, hexenbiest are not omnipotent.
What makes you think Adalind got her powers back? I would appreciate it, the procedure was long and quite boring in my opinion, but did you see her woge? I didn't. And she keeps rubbing her belly with Frau-Pech-paste, that could mean she still needs to absorb hexenbiest-matter over the skin. Stefania told her that it's good for the baby too, she may mean the hexen/zauberbiest power of the baby. And yes, I'm very sure she will try to take revenge on Nick when she's ready.
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - HellJacket - 12-22-2013
FYI, I'm going to blow your arguments off about La Lhorona not because they're bad (or good), but because I do have a limited amount of time. So, I'll stick to arguing that issue with droid.
(12-22-2013, 12:58 AM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote: What makes you think Adalind got her powers back? I would appreciate it, the procedure was long and quite boring in my opinion, but did you see her woge?I knew someone was going to bring this point up. I agree that it's unknown what extent that Adalind has her powers back. For this current topic, it really is irrelevant. I was simply doing a mental exercise to show that hexenbiest are not omnipotent. I could just as easily used the one below.
Logic would assume that if hexenbiest were omnipotent, Adalind would have been able to independently discover who was killing her fellow hexenbiest in BeeWare. She also would have not needed to be protected by a grimm who she knew disliked her for attempting to murder his aunt. Therefore, since Adalind had to resort to Nick to both uncover the entity killing her fellow hexenbiest and protect her, hexenbiest are not omnipotent.
Can you agree with those facts? Happy now?
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - Gretel Hanselsister - 12-22-2013
(12-22-2013, 09:51 AM)HellJacket Wrote: ...hexenbiest are not omnipotent.
Can you agree with those facts? Happy now?
I was trying to find differences and similarities between Krampus/La Llorona/Hexenbiests, I never questioned the abilities of hexenbiests are limited.
Yes of course, I can agree. Omnipotence would be no good for the show, so I wouldn't want to see that. Hope you are happy too
.
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - HellJacket - 12-22-2013
(12-22-2013, 10:24 AM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote: I was trying to find differences and similarities between Krampus/La Llorona/Hexenbiests, . . .I can easily tell you what all three have in common. All three characters were created by writers who felt they could do whatever they want in a Grimm episode without being bound by pesky "rules" or any sense of realism. This is normally a special power reserved for the executive producers, but apparently they've been extending this power to their staff writers as well.
I personally don't like any of these characters/character types, because I find that the more power you give writers, the dumber the story becomes, case in point, the Krampus. Here's the explanation behind the Krampus:
A special wessen that goes into permanent woge for three weeks preceding the Winter Solstice where he's completely unaware of his actions. However, he's immune to woging for the other 49 weeks of the year, so the particular wessen is completely unaware of its nature, while ignoring the fact that if its genetic, one of his parents should have suffered the same "curse".
What hack writer came up with this plot line for a character? Oh yeah, a writer on Grimm.
RE: S03E08 - Twelve Days of Krampus - Lou - 12-22-2013
I don't think we need to read too much into the Krampus. It was just the writers trying to put a Christmas theme onto a monster of the week.
We have had some monsters of the week that do not match all the other weson characteristics, i.e. volcanos and LaLorrna, but i think they were just the writers trying to be interesting and different.
On the other hand we have seen Hexenbiests repeatedly and they don't seem to fit into the typical weson mold, so we just have to keep watching and hoping for an explanation. Hopefully, the writers explanations will be better than the writers of Lost.