+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm (/Thread-Who-is-the-worst-most-corrupt-cop-on-Grimm)
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - New Guy - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 08:08 AM)eric Wrote:Hi Eric,(01-03-2018, 05:42 AM)irukandji Wrote: Actually, I can see where you'd be upset that other definitions of the word were found. I don't get why the dictionary that's most often quoted, Merriam-Webster, was not used, however.This is the crux of the problem: there is more than one definition of the word corrupt. Some see corrupt cops as ones who extort or who use their position for personal gain. I have known several law enforcement and elected officials who were corrupt according to that use the word. Personally, I see Nick not so much as corrupt as being a rouge cop, going outside the accepted/legal limits to deal with criminals--Nick, Hank, Wu, Dirty Harry are rouges, Renard is corrupt, one who allowed or ordered murder in order to line his pockets or gain political power. There is more than one way to describe a person, the word you choose depends upon how you view their actions and their motives. Killing the reapers and burying their bodies to hide them, is that corrupt or rogue?
Clint Eastwood's best line ever!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ishbTwXf1g
![[Image: go-ahead-make-my-day_ed.jpg]](https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OjeKT62fBh8/UJBkhebWlWI/AAAAAAAABOc/pL54qPSWoDc/s1600/go-ahead-make-my-day_ed.jpg)
I guess you should ask the restaurant patrons and the waitress if Harry was corrupt or rogue.
N G
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - irukandji - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 11:27 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: Renard is clearly the most corrupt cop. He's done things for personal gain and things that endangered the lives, or at least the lifestyle, of his force. I'm pretty sure that him joining up with BC would not be a good thing for his officers nor the citizens of Portland. Remember that there was an entire precinct of BC cops that Renard would've had influence over as mayor.
Renard is also the same guy that used the majority of his precinct's resources to hunt down Nick to cover his own ass. He went so far as to issue a shoot-on-sight order. Renard was using his power and manipulating his officers to do his dirty work for him.
As for cops like Nick doing some unsavory things not being tolerated because of the brotherhood, The Wire showed that it was more complicated than that. Some will condone your actions while others are against you. McNulty did many things outside of the box and he's what I would consider a rogue cop. Some of his fellow officers saw the value in what he did while others were never on board. The ones that saw his value were just as much a part of the brotherhood as the ones who disagreed. Other cops wouldn't have covered for him if there was no room for rogue cops.
Of course, The Wire was a much better written show so they showed the consequences of these actions. On the other hand, they also showed that no good deed goes unpunished and the dangers of always playing it by the book. It was very interesting to see the merits of both. I'm strictly talking about within the confines of the show rather than applying it to reality because that would be a different conversation.
Well, this would be my question. Suppose someone with a cell phone happened to film Nick going toward the wesen's house with a bow and arrow. Suppose they further filmed an appalled Hank, stopping him.
How far would that go with the general public? Would they really applaud him as a "rogue" cop?
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - rpmaluki - 01-03-2018
All they'll see is a man with a bow and arrow enter some house.
Nick has mostly entered people's houses with the victims' permission if not always and he always came as a cop first and Grimm second. Most of the people who witnessed Nick dealing some Grimm justice on wesen were 9/10 victims of those wesen or they were related to those wesen committing whatever crimes that put them on Nick's radar. Considering the secrecy surrounding wesen, humans aren't going to shout to the rooftops that they saw Nick killing an animal like beings lest they be called crazy or worse institutionalized and wesen will most likely want to put as much distance between themselves and a grimm, even one that's helping them.
Another thing to remember is Nick performed his Grimm duties largely at night, so visibility is compromised especially when the fantastical is involved. During the day, he acted and behaved more like a cop, investigating and at night he went after those wesen as both to either arrest/stop before they harmed anyone else. I remember reading somewhere why Portland was the chosen city for Grimm, the forests/parks allowed for certain activities to fly under the radar of the general populations.
Those who know of Nick's activities outside his duties as a cop accommodate him because they see his actions as helping to make Portland safe, hence he's never been ratted out in the twenty six years of grimming. Renard had evidence he could have used against Nick but Nick and Hank apparently stole it away from him during the events of 6x03.
Nick is only one of two active Grimms in Portland vs hundreds of wesen in the same city. Whatever likelihood there is of catching Nick on camera means catching the wesen on camera as well (they aren't always successful in hiding their woged visage) and that may garner way more attention to an ignorant public than a man holding some form of weapon in a city known for wild animal attacks.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - Henry of green - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 11:27 AM)irukandji Wrote: It'd be interesting to see how Nick's antics would be viewed if someone or perhaps some people just happened to catch him on their cell phones.
Irk, If human history has taught us anything it’s that people generally don’t react well to the other, anyone or thing different is usually hated so I have no doubt if the people of Portland or the world knew there was wesen amongst them there would be a mass slaughter of innocent Wesen. They would probably encourage Nick to go old school dicappatore on the wesen. Nick on the other hand is very respectful to most Wesen who aren’t raging killers and tries not to discriminate against them. He does the best he can to be morale in the crazy world he finds himself. Humans are quite nasty to what they don’t understand by nature so don’t go around putting us on a pedestal just look at how many animals they are directly responsible for the extinction of and how many of thier own kind they have slaughtered and enslaved for being different.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - irukandji - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 01:29 PM)Henry of green Wrote:(01-03-2018, 11:27 AM)irukandji Wrote: It'd be interesting to see how Nick's antics would be viewed if someone or perhaps some people just happened to catch him on their cell phones.
Irk, If human history has taught us anything it’s that people generally don’t react well to the other, anyone or thing different is usually hated so I have no doubt if the people of Portland or the world knew there was wesen amongst them there would be a mass slaughter of innocent Wesen. They would probably encourage Nick to go old school dicappatore on the wesen. Nick on the other hand is very respectful to most Wesen who aren’t raging killers and tries not to discriminate against them. He does the best he can to be morale in the crazy world he finds himself. Humans are quite nasty to what they don’t understand by nature so don’t go around putting us on a pedestal just look at how many animals they are directly responsible for the extinction of and how many of thier own kind they have slaughtered and enslaved for being different.
I'm not talking about wesen, I'm talking about Nick. I need to point out that in most cases, the wesen did the invisible woge thing so humans would have only seen Nick with another human.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - rpmaluki - 01-03-2018
Another thing to consider, if Nick's caught on video killing a visible wesen, normal humans might think it's fake like an amateur sci-fi film because humans don't know about the existence wesen. Those that do, aren't talking. As for wesen, like I said, they'd want as much distance between themselves and said Grimm and in their world, this is par for the course so it's best to steer clear of any Grimm.
Or another thing to consider l, with HW, there's at least knowledge high up in the government of wesen and Grimms carrying about their grimm duties, there could be people invested in keeping the reality of wesen/Grimm relations secret to keep the public from panicking about these animal like creatures walking in their midst. Wesen coming out in the open because they were caught on video is likely to cause pandemonium if the video is deemed legit and as @Henry said human nature isn't so accepting over something that is clearly different that they don't understand. Nick is more likely to be applauded by the public than anything else especially when the truth of the kill comes out that that particular wesen is guilty of some violent kill or something equally dastardly, since that's the only occasion Nick has ever killed wesen.
(01-03-2018, 01:56 PM)irukandji Wrote:This wasn't always the case.(01-03-2018, 01:29 PM)Henry of green Wrote:(01-03-2018, 11:27 AM)irukandji Wrote: It'd be interesting to see how Nick's antics would be viewed if someone or perhaps some people just happened to catch him on their cell phones.
Irk, If human history has taught us anything it’s that people generally don’t react well to the other, anyone or thing different is usually hated so I have no doubt if the people of Portland or the world knew there was wesen amongst them there would be a mass slaughter of innocent Wesen. They would probably encourage Nick to go old school dicappatore on the wesen. Nick on the other hand is very respectful to most Wesen who aren’t raging killers and tries not to discriminate against them. He does the best he can to be morale in the crazy world he finds himself. Humans are quite nasty to what they don’t understand by nature so don’t go around putting us on a pedestal just look at how many animals they are directly responsible for the extinction of and how many of thier own kind they have slaughtered and enslaved for being different.
I'm not talking about wesen, I'm talking about Nick. I need to point out that in most cases, the wesen did the invisible woge thing so humans would have only seen Nick with another human.
All of Nick's kills except for Kenneth and the BC cops and agents were framed within Nick performing cop duties and Grimm by extension. He never went after anyone unprovoked. Nick didn't randomly kill people for the sake of killing. Those kills were in service to someone else who was a victim of the wesen he killed. It's highly likely Nick could cite self defense because those wesen always attacked him or someone he was trying to protect. The only time Nick walked into someone's house uninvited and ended up killing the wesen was in the pilot when he rescued the kidnapped little girl. No matter how it will look on camera (without the relevant details), Nick always had cause for everything he did, including his kills once the truth came out about why he went after the wesen in the first place.
The video, should it ever exist, will never be taken at face value.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - eric - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 11:07 AM)irukandji Wrote:Almost all TV shows and movies are not real, they are fantasy. This especially the case for Grimm. In the setting of Grimm land, is Nick corrupt? NO. In the real world, YES. When you watch a show or movie or see a play, to enjoy them you have to "suspend disbelief". Do the actors act in their fantasy world in a way that is fantasy believable? Most cop shows solve their crimes within a 24 hour period, using DNA which in reality is almost never processed that fast--do any viewers complain? Almost never. Doctor/hospital shows have lots of sex and really fast test results--any complaints? Except from real doctors and nurses? Rogue cops in the real world exist, but most do not claim they were dealing with mythical creatures that rip out people's throats.(01-03-2018, 08:08 AM)eric Wrote:(01-03-2018, 05:42 AM)irukandji Wrote: Actually, I can see where you'd be upset that other definitions of the word were found. I don't get why the dictionary that's most often quoted, Merriam-Webster, was not used, however.This is the crux of the problem: there is more than one definition of the word corrupt. Some see corrupt cops as ones who extort or who use their position for personal gain. I have known several law enforcement and elected officials who were corrupt according to that use the word. Personally, I see Nick not so much as corrupt as being a rouge cop, going outside the accepted/legal limits to deal with criminals--Nick, Hank, Wu, Dirty Harry are rouges, Renard is corrupt, one who allowed or ordered murder in order to line his pockets or gain political power. There is more than one way to describe a person, the word you choose depends upon how you view their actions and their motives. Killing the reapers and burying their bodies to hide them, is that corrupt or rogue?
eric, there is no room on the force for "rogue" cops, especially if they're teamed up with a partner. Rogue antics end up getting others killed. That's why there are rules for cops to follow. Nick wants to be a grimm, all fine and good. But he should not be a cop because it's clear he cannot maintain his oath or follow the rules to protect not only those who might be on assignment with him, but the general public as well.
Izzy was absolutely correct with regard to the brotherhood. Nick's corruption would not be tolerated. It would be too easy for his corruption to end in the death of other cops. Renard, on the other hand, is management. So he's corrupt, so what? Most of the brotherhood wouldn't even give that a second thought.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - irukandji - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 04:21 PM)eric Wrote: Almost all TV shows and movies are not real, they are fantasy. This especially the case for Grimm. In the setting of Grimm land, is Nick corrupt? NO. In the real world, YES. When you watch a show or movie or see a play, to enjoy them you have to "suspend disbelief". Do the actors act in their fantasy world in a way that is fantasy believable? Most cop shows solve their crimes within a 24 hour period, using DNA which in reality is almost never processed that fast--do any viewers complain? Almost never. Doctor/hospital shows have lots of sex and really fast test results--any complaints? Except from real doctors and nurses? Rogue cops in the real world exist, but most do not claim they were dealing with mythical creatures that rip out people's throats.
eric, if this is the case, then why is Renard labeled as corrupt then?
(01-03-2018, 02:01 PM)rpmaluki Wrote: All of Nick's kills except for Kenneth and the BC cops and agents were framed within Nick performing cop duties and Grimm by extension. He never went after anyone unprovoked.The video, should it ever exist, will never be taken at face value.
You could be right, but I have a feeling that since the wesen was dead, there would be a lot of attention to the premises because it would be up to Nick to call for assistance.
It's not only Kenneith and the BC cops but the royals as well. Nick had no business going out to the compound and murdering people.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - izzy - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 11:27 AM)irukandji Wrote: It'd be interesting to see how Nick's antics would be viewed if someone or perhaps some people just happened to catch him on their cell phones.
I think it would be more interesting to see the reactions of the folks abiding Nick's behavior if you had very similar crimes committed by people who were LGBT or illegal aliens. What if instead of BC we substituted LaRaza and they were attempting to force all people who are Hispanic business owners to join them and uprising against the gringos or they would burn their shops, beat them, and make examples of them?
Or what about Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) gangs? I don't think there is much a wesen could do to human that is worse than what MS-13 has done to people. So how would it be if Nick simply suspended the rule of law for MS-13 members.
Or what if Nick had finely tuned gaydar and could detect homosexuals who committed heinous crimes...
Better yet what if Nick could detect Muslims and simply went around violating the rights of terrorists? He could kick in the doors of mosques and dispatch some justice to the radicalized. Heck no need for warrants or trials, the guy had a prayer rug and bought some fertilizer and Nick heard him talking. Or that kid, Ahmed Mohamed...with that clock? Come on Truble let's go visit him.
In my view, either you support the rule of law for all people (and judging by the "for the religious" thread there is not anyone who does to consider wesen the equivalent of humans, except maybe me) or you believe the rule of applies to some people and not others based on some concrete criteria. Fortunately in Grimm we know that we have a Solomon like sage in the form of Nick making the determination on the fly in a fit of passion.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - Henry of green - 01-03-2018
Izzy, your making it seem like Nick just goes around slaughtering any Wesen he sees when he clearly doesn’t . Nick always tries to stick by the law at first and then when that doesn’t work with the extreme wesen he does what his thinks is necessary to protect Portland. Izzy, It’s funny how you don’t seem so concerned with wesen rigths when Renard said him and Black Claw would wipe out every wesen that doesn’t join them.