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+--- Thread: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm (/Thread-Who-is-the-worst-most-corrupt-cop-on-Grimm)
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - Henry of green - 12-31-2017
(12-31-2017, 04:47 PM)Robyn Wrote: I don’t disagree that the characters are corrupt cops, but not the same as those who use their positions for purely personal gain, such as sexual abuse, extorting money, etc. etc. So while I agree that Nick, Hank, and Wu were unethical based on required police conduct, they weren’t looking to advance their careers or bank accounts via unethical means.
Renard is exactly who he was from the beginning. He didn’t pretend to be anything he wasn’t, he simply allowed those around him to believe he was a good guy. I didn’t see any indication that Renard became a cop because he wanted to make the world a better place. If anything, being on the police force provided him contacts/resources and access to information along with government backed clout when dealing with troublesome opponents & obstacles. But more important, was a stepping stone in his eventual rise to power either in the public or private sector.
I didn’t take as much issue with Nick choosing the Grimm method over law enforcement method as I did Hank & Wu. Being a Grimm made Nick inherently different. But as humans who happen to know about Grimm and Wesen, I expected Hank and Wu to struggle over increasingly crossing the line of ingrained police conduct. But they didn’t, to the point of instantly deciding they could commit murder.
I agree with you Robyn but I would put Renard in the personal gain sector as he only went into the police force for power and personal gian.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - Robyn - 12-31-2017
(12-31-2017, 07:04 PM)Henry of green Wrote: I agree with you Robyn but I would put Renard in the personal gain sector as he only went into the police force for power and personal gian.
Absolutely, Renard was all about personal gain. I only noted him separately because I don't think the show implied any blurred lines with Renard. He was what he was, and didn't make excuses or offer apologies for his choices.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - irukandji - 12-31-2017
Wouldn't the desire to become and stay a grimm be considered personal gain?
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - izzy - 12-31-2017
I say Nick by wide sweeping margin. It isn't even close.
Irukandji can correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand the BOTB (note 1) management (note 2) is not usually considered part of the BOTB, unless in reference to a legendary patrol officer who rose through the ranks and was highly, highly respected by the rank and file(note 3). These days most of the management ranks are defacto political appointees or diversity appointments and not considered merit based by the rank and file. Ergo, a level of corruption up the chain is not taken as so much a personal affront to the rank and file, especially these days, as would be with a member of the BOTB.
But a dirty cop like Nick is an affront to ever badge on the street. Cops view scum like that as the reason some of them get killed, by a public that has grown increasingly hostile to the men in blue. Nick is a total disgrace and betrays every uniformed man who gets up in the morning.
Renard, while he is a disgrace, is management. It does not cascade down to the rank and file. It may be a slight morale hit but likely you would hear 3/4 of the LEOs saying they were not surprised. But when a member of the BOTB is implicated, morale takes a hit, anger ensues.
Nick took Hank and Wu down with him and sullied what seemed to be two honest cops. Renard had a part in that but they never saw him as a peer. You may be surprised how little regard the rank and file have for their chain of command superiors.
Izzy
Notes:
#1 BOTB = Brotherhood of the Badge.
#2 Captains, Lieutenants,Inspectors are considered management, Sargeants are usually still considered rank and file like detectives (Departments vary)
#3 An example, in one community there is a cop who put his life on the line and engaged in actual shootouts when apprehending known gang members on two occasions. The thing that makes this so exceptional if he was off-duty each time and simply recognized the criminals. He had also performed more heroics when on duty. If this man was elevated all the way up to commissioner he will always be part of the BOTB as they do not relinquish their heroes.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - Henry of green - 01-01-2018
(12-31-2017, 08:11 PM)irukandji Wrote: Wouldn't the desire to become and stay a grimm be considered personal gain?
No the last I checked Nick didn’t get paid for Grimming,
(12-31-2017, 09:55 PM)izzy Wrote: I say Nick by wide sweeping margin. It isn't even close.
Irukandji can correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand the BOTB (note 1) management (note 2) is not usually considered part of the BOTB, unless in reference to a legendary patrol officer who rose through the ranks and was highly, highly respected by the rank and file(note 3). These days most of the management ranks are defacto political appointees or diversity appointments and not considered merit based by the rank and file. Ergo, a level of corruption up the chain is not taken as so much a personal affront to the rank and file, especially these days, as would be with a member of the BOTB.
But a dirty cop like Nick is an affront to ever badge on the street. Cops view scum like that as the reason some of them get killed, by a public that has grown increasingly hostile to the men in blue. Nick is a total disgrace and betrays every uniformed man who gets up in the morning.
Renard, while he is a disgrace, is management. It does not cascade down to the rank and file. It may be a slight morale hit but likely you would hear 3/4 of the LEOs saying they were not surprised. But when a member of the BOTB is implicated, morale takes a hit, anger ensues.
Nick took Hank and Wu down with him and sullied what seemed to be two honest cops. Renard had a part in that but they never saw him as a peer. You may be surprised how little regard the rank and file have for their chain of command superiors.
Izzy
Notes:
#1 BOTB = Brotherhood of the Badge.
#2 Captains, Lieutenants,Inspectors are considered management, Sargeants are usually still considered rank and file like detectives (Departments vary)
#3 An example, in one community there is a cop who put his life on the line and engaged in actual shootouts when apprehending known gang members on two occasions. The thing that makes this so exceptional if he was off-duty each time and simply recognized the criminals. He had also performed more heroics when on duty. If this man was elevated all the way up to commissioner he will always be part of the BOTB as they do not relinquish their heroes.
Izzy, Nick is more corrupt than a guy who has people murderd in his own precinct and is involved with criminal elements oustside the precint in order to increase his wealth. Renard stole his own police detectives blood from his medical and give it to Adalind. Renard has broken every rule of policing for sure and never give a damm , is Renard a better cop than Nick not a chance in hell, Nick actually helps people Renard doesn’t unless it benefits him.
As for Renard being management who cares that makes things even worse in my opinion, Renard has joined his detectives and officers out on the field on numerous occasions in the community. Renard was taking innocent criminals who's crimes didn’t extend beyond them being drug addicts and giving them to Leo temor to fight to the death in a wesen gladiator racket that Renard profited from.
The police officers we’ve seen on the show seemed to like Nick, Franco for example in 6x01 was very resistant to helping Renard capture or kill Nick, he even told Hank and wu he didn’t want to bring down one of thier own. The whole precinct give Nick a very warm welcome back in 6x04 and treated him like a hero. you have zero evidence nick was desliked in the precinct infact there’s overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Though we do have evidence of cops despising Renard, Hank and Wu have both expressed hatred towards Renard even calling him a bastard.
Also you said Renard didn’t rise through the ranks the show suggest that theroy is wrong , Renard had been a cop for 20 years according to his own words in season 5. He also told Andrew Dixon he had zero experience with politics so it’s wrong to say he is a defecto political appointee as captain it is strongly hinted he worked his way through the ranks. Renard is already in his early forties in the pilot of Grimm he is twelve years Nicks senior and by season 5 claims he’s been a cop 20 years he was hardly a captain all those years.
Renard even got into political corruption as BC fixed the election in his favor, he joined a wesen Nazi like group BC who were following in Hitlers example according to the show. Renard threatened that they meaning Black Claw would Murder every wesen that doesn’t join them and that also included his own cops he even threatened Hank and wu to stick with the new progamme meaning BC.
As for Nick corrupting Hank your wrong, it was explianed in episode 1x08 that Hank was involved in stitching up the orge for murder beacuse he was going to get away with his actual crimes, this is before he even met Nick. Hank was always willing to break the rules if it was for the right reason. But I can agree with you he my have changed wu’s views on policing, sense unlike Hank wu was always by the book so I can see your piont for Wu but your wrong about Hank.
This is the definitions of the word according to the oxford dictionary.
Dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.
‘the journalist who wants to expose corruption in high places’
More example sentences Synonyms.
The action or effect of making someone or something morally depraved.
‘the corruption of youth was a powerful motif’
‘the word ‘addict’ conjures up evil and corruption’
More example sentencesSynonyms
The process by which a word or expression is changed from its original state to one regarded as erroneous or debased.
‘a record of a word's corruption’
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - New Guy - 01-01-2018
(12-31-2017, 06:21 PM)irukandji Wrote: Hi New Guy-Hello Iruk,
Nick is an affront to our men in blue who risk their lives every day serving the public, which includes alleged criminals. As you're well aware, I consider him an affront to my father, who was a dedicated sergeant and detective on the force for decades. The series took potshots at our men in blue. What else can I say?
What you must say and do is simple. As I said in #8:
Quote:Surely you can produce proof that Nick acted dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.Your attempt in to reply in #13 was irrelevant. Nick's "desire to become and stay a grimm" was not personal gain. His Grimm was stolen and as a victim he had a right to recovery. Recovering something stolen is not dishonest. In fact, a good cop should act to recover something stolen and return it to the owner.
In case you forgot, here is the definition:
Quote:Corrupt:If you can prove (provide factual evidence) Nick meets the definition then do it. Try harder. Make it a New Year's Resolution.
having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
N G
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - Robyn - 01-01-2018
I don’t think Nick equated Grimm with an opportunity for personal gain. He obviously enjoyed playing the hero and being the object of admiration, but wasn’t interested in accumulating wealth or coercing the innocent to do his bidding.
To me, the way the show was designed suggested the characters didn’t consider themselves corrupt, but above the law. A captain identified as self-serving, criminal, and against Nick shifts to creating an environment that aids and covers up Nick’s vigilantism within the first season. A partner too easily accepting Nick’s flimsy excuses for questionable behavior immediately jumps on board once learning of the secret Grimm/Wesen world. Adding Monroe, Rosalee, Juliette, and Wu to the mix of like-minded cohorts exacerbates the assumption of unified corruption. The concept of good & evil was whittled down to pro Grimm good, anti Grimm bad. G & K created a perfect scenario for their stories to play out unencumbered by a jurisdiction outside the core group, oblivious that their characters would pay the price.
If G & K created Nick/Grimm as the answer to a legal system ill equipped against Wesen, they blew up that theory when S5 established that world governments were aware and effectively equipped to handle Wesen issues on a global level. But remove the modern day law enforcement/government structure and G & K’s scenario works. Team Grimm becomes Robin Hood and his band of merry men working outside and against a corrupt or ineffective system that threatens rather than protects.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - irukandji - 01-01-2018
(01-01-2018, 06:19 AM)New Guy Wrote:(12-31-2017, 06:21 PM)irukandji Wrote: Hi New Guy-Hello Iruk,
Nick is an affront to our men in blue who risk their lives every day serving the public, which includes alleged criminals. As you're well aware, I consider him an affront to my father, who was a dedicated sergeant and detective on the force for decades. The series took potshots at our men in blue. What else can I say?
What you must say and do is simple. As I said in #8:
Quote:Surely you can produce proof that Nick acted dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.Your attempt in to reply in #13 was irrelevant. Nick's "desire to become and stay a grimm" was not personal gain. His Grimm was stolen and as a victim he had a right to recovery. Recovering something stolen is not dishonest. In fact, a good cop should act to recover something stolen and return it to the owner.
In case you forgot, here is the definition:
Quote:Corrupt:If you can prove (provide factual evidence) Nick meets the definition then do it. Try harder. Make it a New Year's Resolution.
having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
N G
Hello New Guy-
A couple of days ago you spent some time explaining about your faith, that it comes from both parental guidance and personal seeking. You are active in your church, do volunteer work and, well you know what you did.
Does your faith include baiting and badgering? This is what I see here. I tell you quite calmly that Nick is an affront to my father, which is clearly a personal thing to me. I posed a question to Robyn based on her response. She responded with a well thought out post.
You're certainly welcome and encouraged to respond, but your response was quite different. Robyn's post was respectful. You not only talked down to me, but stated that I should make it a New Years Resolution to show factual evidence that Nick meets the definition of corrupt. If you are as firm in your faith as you portrayed in your post the other day, you would not have badgered or baited, but instead simply continued with the discussion.
I leave you with this one final thought as this may help you to understand where I'm coming from. Also, I have said this before so it should be no surprise.
You have taken oaths as part of your faith. I assume from your post the other day that you are firm in keeping those oaths. Law Enforcement also take an oath to serve and protect their community. That's not verbatim, but you get the general idea. Also, part of the oath is on the OPD cars in Grimm. I believe it says "to protect and serve"
Where in the oath does it state that Nick can serve and protect only those who he deems deserving of his grimmness?
BTW, Nick was about to torture a suspect in one of the episodes. I do not know the name but it was the episode where the wesen was imitating one of the very feared grimms. Even Hank was appalled.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - Henry of green - 01-01-2018
Where I come from Northern Ireland for years the police were murderous scum who discriminated agianst people beacuse of thier faith or political views but it has changed greatly now thank goodness from the troubled years ended about 20 years ago the policing has got much better and less discriminative.
RE: Who is the worst most corrupt cop on Grimm - irukandji - 01-01-2018
No one says law enforcement is perfect, henry. However, where would any of us be if they suddenly decided the public trust just isn't worth it and walked off the job?
Five law enforcement officers were just ambushed here in the states not so very far from where I live yesterday. One was killed.
I'll tell you who the scum was. The coward who injured and killed them through the cowardly act of ambush.