+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Why Nick and Adalind clicked (/Thread-Why-Nick-and-Adalind-clicked)
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - brandon - 08-31-2017
I think what happened between them has nothing to do with stockholm syndrome.
Sometimes having a baby ends up separating a couple but between them there was nothing.
None had a good impression of the other,perhaps because of the fights between them.
Both though the best for a child and that enchants the other. Vice versa.
That Adalind was human made things easy use magic to cook,other things.
He saw that she helps without using no trick.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - wesen - 08-31-2017
(08-31-2017, 09:51 AM)brandon Wrote: I think what happened between them has nothing to do with stockholm syndrome.
Sometimes having a baby ends up separating a couple but between them there was nothing.
None had a good impression of the other,perhaps because of the fights between them.
Both though the best for a child and that enchants the other. Vice versa.
That Adalind was human made things easy use magic to cook,other things.
He saw that she helps without using no trick.
I can understand why at the initial phase, their relationship was described as being somewhat like stockholm syndrome. Nick and Adalind were forced to live together, they felt they had no choice. They were trapped by their situation, but tried to make best of it, forcing themselves to get along for the sake of their baby. But they did end up genuinely liking each other despite their forced arrangement, and there was never any fear of violence or abuse. In actual cases of stockholm syndrome, the feelings of love were based on fear and survival in the midst of abuse and threats. Nick and Adalind falling in love was also definitely not planned, it was something that eventually happened after getting to know each other.
(08-31-2017, 08:13 AM)dicappatore Wrote:(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote:Quote:You mentioned that Nick was basically this guy who had no choice other than Adalind because Juliette was the one who chose to leave him, when it was obvious that juliette still had feelings for him and missed him at times. It wasn't that Nick didnt have an option, he was able to move on with his life with another person who he was happy with, whereas Juliette was the one who was presented as basically being unhappy and had no option but to live with who she became. I felt sorry for her more than I did for Nick. Nick got his happily ever after, Juliette didn't.
But this doesn't answer my observation about your post. Why do you continue to bring Juliette into a thread that is specifically about Nick and Adalind? As I said, I'm not trying to be rude, but whenever someone critiques Adalind, all of the sudden there's some poster (or posters) who have to rant about Juliette. I know exactly what Juliette did, but this thread isn't about her, nor is it about how Nick could or could not get her back. Maybe you could explain why you feel it's so important to continue to drag her into the debate?
My original post was about why I thought Adalind and Nick clicked. You implied that they didn't click, but only ended up together because they had no choice coz no one else wanted them. You seem to be suggesting that Adalind was only runner up, the second best choice because Juliette didn't want Nick anymore. That's the reason why I mentioned Juliette, coz I wanted to show you that Juliette did want Nick back, if she thought they had a chance. She realised in the end though that Nick had already moved on and formed a happy life with someone new. The kindest thing she ever did for him was to release him from his feeling of guilt/burden towards her.
Quote:Yet Nick thought she was a good enough woman to be his girlfriend and maybe even his wife. Meisner seemed to have only good non sexual thoughts about Adalind, specifically about her being a good mother. Nick thought so too, when he told Monroe she was an amazing mother to Kelly. So you're wrong about that as well.
Nick told Monroe she was an amazing mother. When did he ever tell Monroe that he was just glad she came into his life, or that he loved her? Tell me, when did Nick talk to Monroe about Adalind and only Adalind besides the unremarkable statement that she's an amazing mother?
At the time of their conversation (season 5) Nick was still unsure about Adalind, so why would he say that he loved her? It would have been strange and frankly unbelievable if Nick suddenly declared to his friends that Adalind was the love of his life just after a few months of living with her. He's spent years hating her, a few months of learning to live together and actually liking one another isn't something that can overcome that immediately. Nick only realised his feelings for her when he lost her to BC, and when he had to face later on the possibility of losing her again, this time forever. Adalind may have declared her feelings for Nick a bit too early, but she was frightened he wasn't coming back. Rpmaluki has an interesting perspective that Adalind and Nick both chose to declare their love for one another under pressure. Only when they realised the high stakes did they face what they felt for one another. Yes, Adalind was more open towards Nick about her feelings to him, but in my opinion, t's not surprising that he was more slow to realise his feelings for her. First off, he was scared of Adalind turning into a hexenbiest again after his history with her and all the horrible things that Juliette did after she turned into a hexenbiest. Second of all, Nick was still nursing a broken heart and grieving over Juliette in season 5. This was shown in one of the early episodes prior to moving to the loft, where Nick goes to his and Juliette's bedroom and he goes over to the closet and touches Juliette's dress. You don't just get over someone you've been with for years that fast, even if you might start to develop feelings for someone else. If Nick had done so, that would have shown him to be a callous and shallow jerk.
Furthermore, Nick did fight to get Adalind back as was seen in season 6, he told Renard that Adalind was going with him. Why would he say that if he didn't care about Adalind at all? He could have just left her with Renard and co-parented Kelly with her. Nick might not have declared his love to Adalind immediately after getting her back, but what he lacked in words, he showed it through his actions, even in front of his friends. He considers their violent altercation at the ruins as their first kiss, his new found feelings for her altered his perception of what actually occurred between them when he took her powers at the ruins. Then we see Nick telling Adalind that he thought he was going to go crazy without her, and he specifically didn't mention Kelly, so that clearly showed how much he missed her and wanted to be with her. Then, in Blind Love he told Adalind that they were lucky that they had each other, and ran to her and hugged her after the love spell wore off. There was also the many numerous looks and even hugs as well as kisses they had, both private and in public. He also opposed Adalind from entering the mirror world, even though he knew that there was a chance that Juliette could be trapped in the other world forever. In fact, it was Adalind who had to bring up that point. Most important of all was the absolute trust that they had for each other, Adalind wasn't jealous of Eve, she knew about the stick, whatever issues they had they were able to resolve it even if it was not shown on screen. Saying I love you was merely the icing on the cake, it didn't change anything between them.
Quote:(08-31-2017, 12:19 AM)wesen Wrote: The reality is guys as well as women check out people who are not their significant other if that said person is attractive. It's human nature to look at and admire something or someone who is beautiful/handsome. Nick never cheated on Juliette, finding someone attractive does not equate to cheating.
Guys wouldn't be guys if they didn't look at a pretty girl. They're hard wired just like women are when they check out a guy.
But that is not what you said. You said Nick lusted after Adalind while he was with Juliette. Lusting after someone is a whole different thing. I merely stated I could see why Juliette refused his proposal.
Lust is a feeling of physical attraction towards someone. That is not the same as cheating. Nick did lust after Adalind, but most importantly, he NEVER acted on it. He remained loyal to Juliette to the end of their relationship. It was Juliette who chose to cheat on him with Renard, just because she was mad at him (Nick). I don't want to drag Juliette into this again, but if you are going to criticise Nick for something he didn't even do, then you should look at who actually was the cheater in their relationship. And btw, Juliette refused his proposal not because he cheated on her, but because she didn't trust him. That alone shows that there were cracks in their relationship. This lack of trust (that they were never able to resolve) and their unrealistic demands from each other, as well as their mismatched personalities is what drove them apart.
Quote:Why would she have chosen to date someone so soon after having Kelly? She could have remained single, and let's pretend that the characters did exist off screen. Adalind was still hot, she could have dated other men besides Nick. Just because she was a single mother would not stop guys from wanting to be with her. She was young, attractive and when she got her job back, financially able to rely on her own. She would be considered a catch even with children. Also, if we stick to other characters in the show, Meisner thought highly of Adalind. So no, Nick wasn't the only option for Adalind. Even Renard was willing to play happy families with her, she could have easily gone back to him as another option besides Nick.
Exactly. She *could* have gone on to be an independent woman. She had a great career. The firm wanted her back. Instead she opted to move in with Nick and become his domestic little mouse with no life of her own.
Just because she fell in love with Nick doesn't make her a mouse with no life of her own. I think you just want her to be single so she wouldn't have to end up with Nick. There is no reason to criticise her for falling in love with a man that she likes, who is kind to her, and who has a baby with her. People fall in love everyday, why should Adalind be held to different standard compared to other women? You might as well criticise Rosalee for choosing to be with Monroe when she could have chosen to be an independent woman with a business of her own. It doesn't make sense to me. Adalind chose to be with Nick because she loved him, plain and simple. In the end, she had no need to rely on him, and she would probably have earned more money than he did, but because she truly loved him, she wanted to be with him.
Quote:As I stated before, she settled for less.
That's your interpretation.
Quote:As I stated, he also settled for less.
Again, that's your interpretation. You might think they settled for less but the show was clear that they were happy with each other in the end.
Quote:Quote:Adalind got domestic and frumpy. Nick became even blander
That's your bias talking. I know you hate the idea of nadalind but Ive read a few posts here that seem to confirm the popularity of the couple. The viewers bought it, because like another poster here said, if it was unpopular, they wouldn't have made nadalind the end game. Personally, I like the idea of liking and loving someone for who they are, warts and all, without having to go to extreme lengths just to please someone. In the real world, most people would probably prefer a comfortable low key relationship over a high maintenance drama filled one.
Why is your opinion considered just the greatest most wonderful piece of writing and mine is biased?
I don't get you posters who favor the Adalind/Nick combination. You don't allow for posters to have a different point of view. They must have your point of view or they're called all kinds of names and criticized unfairly.
I could care less if you criticize the characters, but why do you feel personal criticisms are warranted simply because someone doesn't see it your way?
You are putting words into my mouth. I never claimed to have the most wonderful piece of writing ever, but what I cannot tolerate is when you twist/make up facts to suit your bias. The show ends with Nick and Adalind still together after 20 years, you then said that they would look back and wonder why they 'settled for less' with each other. This is just plain wrong because there is absolutely no suggestion that this ever happened, nor did the show ever imply it. Everything you stated there was opposite to what the show intended, and is nothing but merely your own personal conjecture, because I have a feeling you dislike Nadalind as end game. You don't have to like them together as a couple, but no need to make up claims that aren't true. Then you mentioned that Nick and Adalind had no choice but to hook up with each other because no one else wanted them, despite me providing examples from a few episodes that Juliette did still want Nick, and Renard was willing to play happy families with Adalind (as was shown in the show). I know I'm just new here and I'm trying not to stir trouble, but what gets my goat is when you make claims without trying to back them up with evidence. I could just as easily make the claim that Nick and Monroe ended up together as lovers because I want them to be together, but without any evidence to back up my statements, I'm only going to be talking complete b.s.
I am telling you guys. Stop beating your head on the wall with this poster. I tried to make points with facts in the past and then have it just redirected to another argument. I stopped reading the posts from this contributor but I can’t help it when you guys repost the quotes. By this poster’s own admission, on some other thread, I wish I could go to it. Admits about enjoying the musical score while doing, I guess, house work, in other rooms.
Then comes up with biased fantasies as factual or, like someone else said, “Don’t put words in my mouth”. I also seen this poster, accuse other contributors changing topics away from original threads, while this same poster has done the exact thing.
I think on one post, Nick is accused for not sprucing himself up for Adalind, by the same contributor. WTF? In the fome, they started out sleeping in separate rooms. They never intended to be an item. They shared one bath. That means they were seeing each other, every day, what they looked like after crawling out of bed. How much sprucing up can one do? After you been smelling eachother’s aroma from taking a dump? What universe is this person from?
If I cared enough to prove my point, I would do the research and point out my accusations but they would just be denied, and me, accused of fabricating them. So, It’s just not worth it. There a few great examples on the quotes, listed on the re-posted quotes above, when I posted this, and should be enough to prove my point.
Another reason why Nick and Adalind clicked. When a biased contributor is against it! See, I stayed on topic!
I didn't mean to start an argument with the poster, but I just got annoyed because they were throwing comments that were completely different to the actual storyline. I can understand if it was fanfiction, but they should make it clear if that was their intention all along.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - brandon - 08-31-2017
Is a man-Nick- who will have a child of "another woman" and an ex girlfriend is threatening.
He looks for the two to be safe.
When they see each other for the first time they smile until she gets excited and..."Woge".
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - irukandji - 08-31-2017
(08-31-2017, 04:39 AM)rpmaluki Wrote:(08-31-2017, 04:26 AM)irukandji Wrote: I don't get you posters who favor the Adalind/Nick combination. You don't allow for posters to have a different point of view. They must have your point of view or they're called all kinds of names and criticized unfairly.Please be specific to those who do this and direct this towards them because not everyone who supports Nick/Adalind has criticised people who have a differing view. I don't like Nick and Juliette and never have because of how badly I feel they were written, that has nothing to do with posters who support them, who are free to like them as I am free to like N/A.
I am sorry about that, rpmaluki. I agree with what you're saying. Not everyone who supports Nick/Adalind takes pot shots at those who have a different point of view.
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: My original post was about why I thought Adalind and Nick clicked. You implied that they didn't click, but only ended up together because they had no choice coz no one else wanted them. You seem to be suggesting that Adalind was only runner up, the second best choice because Juliette didn't want Nick anymore. That's the reason why I mentioned Juliette, coz I wanted to show you that Juliette did want Nick back, if she thought they had a chance. She realised in the end though that Nick had already moved on and formed a happy life with someone new. The kindest thing she ever did for him was to release him from his feeling of guilt/burden towards her.
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never implied that Adalind was the choice because Juliette didn't want Nick anymore. And I don't believe you brought Juliette into the debate simply to show me "that Juliette really did want Nick back, but realized he had already moved on and formed a happy life with someone new".
It's apparent you like the Adalind/Nick combination and it's apparent you do not like the Nick/Juliette combination. You were annoyed that I criticized Adalind and so you're throwing Juliette into the conversation in some attempt to show that Adalind is clearly the one who should be with Nick just by virtue of Juliette being a bitch.
By the way, before you accuse someone of changing the series, you might want to read your paragraph because you clearly changed the facts here. Juliette turned into Eve and did not want Nick back, nor did Nick get ever get the impression she wanted him back.
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: At the time of their conversation (season 5) Nick was still unsure about Adalind, so why would he say that he loved her? It would have been strange and frankly unbelievable if Nick suddenly declared to his friends that Adalind was the love of his life just after a few months of living with her.
Allow me to quote your previous paragraph:
Quote:Yet Nick thought she was a good enough woman to be his girlfriend and maybe even his wife. Meisner seemed to have only good non sexual thoughts about Adalind, specifically about her being a good mother. Nick thought so too, when he told Monroe she was an amazing mother to Kelly. So you're wrong about that as well.
Nick is so sure about Adalind being a good enough woman to be his girlfriend and maybe even his wife, but he's not sure enough of his feelings for her?
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: Furthermore, Nick did fight to get Adalind back as was seen in season 6, he told Renard that Adalind was going with him. Why would he say that if he didn't care about Adalind at all?
Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said Nick didn't care about Adalind at all.
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: Lust is a feeling of physical attraction towards someone. That is not the same as cheating. Nick did lust after Adalind, but most importantly, he NEVER acted on it.
Lust is a very strong sexual desire and it's a serious thing. You can whitewash it all you want by adding , "that is not the same as cheating".
However **if** you see Juliette sensing that Nick is lusting after Adalind, then Juliette was absolutely, positively right about refusing his proposal.
ETA: I don't see this about Nick. I never, ever got the impression he was lusting after Adalind.
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: Just because she fell in love with Nick doesn't make her a mouse with no life of her own.
If you were talking about Renard, I would totally agree with you. Adalind fell in love with Renard, but she kept her career, she had her own apartment, she was a hexenbiest who could do hexenbiest things, and she even had time for some sexual flings when she and Renard parted company. She was fun and funny, always scheming and she had fun at it. That's what made her character.
How much fun did you see her having with Nick in the fome now? Now, before you tell me how sweet and nice she is and how Kelly takes up oh so much of her time, consider this.
Nick is the star of the show, he's the grimm. Is the creative team really going to give Nick some serious competition by making Adalind the scheming hexenbiest with a career doing her own thing while living with him? Not on your life. She's been reduced to human background, a domesticated mouse who was suddenly deathly afraid of being a hexenbiest around Nick and totally afraid of doing her own thing. What was done to her character was a travesty. If you get time, peruse some of the other grimm forums. I'm not the only one who misses the old Adalind.
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: I think you just want her to be single so she wouldn't have to end up with Nick. There is no reason to criticise her for falling in love with a man that she likes, who is kind to her, and who has a baby with her.
Nick wasn't always kind to her. Because he listened to his mother instead of his police training, he participated in kidnapping her first baby. As a result of that, he messed everything up. He hated her for what she did to Marie, and he took her hexenbiest powers away from her, causing even more trouble.
Add to the fact that she raped him and ended up pregnant with Kelly. She wasn't even going to tell him he was a father to be. She was only forced to because she was booted out by the royals.
I think it's rather arrogant to tell other posters they can't make comments about her. She's a fictional character and this isn't a thread discussing scripts about the series. It's asking for opinions. Not everyone is going to adore Adalind and write nothing other than compliments simply because you want them to unless you state that's what you're looking for when you start a thread.
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: People fall in love everyday, why should Adalind be held to different standard compared to other women? You might as well criticise Rosalee for choosing to be with Monroe when she could have chosen to be an independent woman with a business of her own.
The only one who compared Adalind to other women is you. You did that by bringing Juliette into the debate. Now you're bringing Rosalee into it. I merely stated that I think she and Nick settled for less.
Quote:As I stated before, she settled for less.
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: That's your interpretation.
Are your opinions not your own interpretations? Do you really consider your opinions to be facts?
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: Adalind got domestic and frumpy. Nick became even blander
That's your bias talking. I know you hate the idea of nadalind but Ive read a few posts here that seem to confirm the popularity of the couple. The viewers bought it, because like another poster here said, if it was unpopular, they wouldn't have made nadalind the end game. Personally, I like the idea of liking and loving someone for who they are, warts and all, without having to go to extreme lengths just to please someone. In the real world, most people would probably prefer a comfortable low key relationship over a high maintenance drama filled one.
No, it's not my bias talking. It's only biased to you because I'm not agreeing with what you're saying. That's all this comes down to. You're annoyed because I don't see Nick and Adalind the same way you do.
Let me ask this: Do you really want to read pages and pages of posts, with everyone agreeing with the way you think? Just from the way you're arguing with me, I would say no. But, maybe you do.
(08-31-2017, 07:18 AM)wesen Wrote: You are putting words into my mouth. I never claimed to have the most wonderful piece of writing ever, but what I cannot tolerate is when you twist/make up facts to suit your bias. The show ends with Nick and Adalind still together after 20 years, you then wrote that you can imagine that they would look back and wonder why they 'settled for less' with each other. That was not what the show intended, it was a happy ending meant to show that Nick and Adalind had a long lasting and close relationship.
You might want to read your very first post on this thread because it doesn't consist of facts. I'll quote part of it for you:
Quote:I don't want to turn this into an Adalind vs Juliette bashing thread, I just want to give out some of the reasons why I think Adalind and Nick clicked much more than Nick and Juliette did.
Maybe you can point out exactly where you set the rules for this thread and told everyone to discuss facts and facts only, because what I see here is a thread asking for our thoughts
which ARE NOT facts.
Again, I think you're just peeved because I voiced my thoughts and so now you're trying to change the thread. If you want to, that's fine, just make sure you're clear and concise because it's apparent you are only looking for specific responses that everyone agrees with you about Nick and Adalind. Be specific and you'll get exactly what you want.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - wesen - 08-31-2017
Quote:It's apparent you like the Adalind/Nick combination and it's apparent you do not like the Nick/Juliette combination. You were annoyed that I criticized Adalind and so you're throwing Juliette into the conversation in some attempt to show that Adalind is clearly the one who should be with Nick just by virtue of Juliette being a bitch.
Au contraire, I actually was a supporter of the Juliette/Nick relationship to begin with, but their never ending drama just completely turned me off to them. I was annoyed with you, not because you criticised Adalind (which would have been entirely reasonable, she has done a lot of horrible things in the past to merit criticism) but because you were trying to change the official narrative to suit your own preference. For example, your suggestion that Nick and Adalind hooked up together because they had no other choice but each other. Nowhere was that shown in the show, the main reason why they ended up together was because they had a baby together, and ended up falling in love with each other.
Quote:By the way, before you accuse someone of changing the series, you might want to read your paragraph because you clearly changed the facts here. Juliette turned into Eve and did not want Nick back, nor did Nick get ever get the impression she wanted him back.
Oh yeah? Care to explain why Juliette as Eve in Season 5 kept warning Nick that once Adalind turned back into a hexenbiest, she couldn't be trusted? That was frankly none of Eve/Juliette's business since she and Nick weren't together anymore. They weren't even friends at that stage. And then she took it a step further and actually went to Adalind to confront her, warning her that she would kill Adalind if Adalind ever hurt Nick. How else to interpret that scene if Juliette/Eve had no interest in Nick anymore? Then Eve mentions she would do her best to look after Kelly, ignoring Adalind's role as his mother altogether. We move on to Season 6. In the Captain, Oh Captain episode, Nick is undressing to change into the clothes of Renard. Everyone else looks away from him as he undresses except for Eve/Juliette, and Nick glares at her, which causes her to turn away from him. Why would scenes like that be shown if it wasn't implying that Juliette/Eve didn't feel anything for Nick? Oh and if it wasn't clear for us, Juliette/Eve does a strange like woge after hearing Adalind and Nick's private conversation. As a viewer, I got the impression that her hexenbiest was trying to come out in a moment of jealousy but she was able to control it. Who knows, maybe another viewer might have interpreted the scene differently. But what was intentionally clear was the conversation that Juliette/Eve had with Diana about missing Nick and sometimes wanting him back. See, I mentioned these to you in detail, citing particular scenes to support my theories but you just say things without any evidence whatsoever. I sometimes wonder, did you even watch any of the episodes? Because it seems you either miss out on key details or ignore certain events that occurred in the show.
Quote:At the time of their conversation (season 5) Nick was still unsure about Adalind, so why would he say that he loved her? It would have been strange and frankly unbelievable if Nick suddenly declared to his friends that Adalind was the love of his life just after a few months of living with her.
Allow me to quote your previous paragraph:
Yet Nick thought she was a good enough woman to be his girlfriend and maybe even his wife. Meisner seemed to have only good non sexual thoughts about Adalind, specifically about her being a good mother. Nick thought so too, when he told Monroe she was an amazing mother to Kelly. So you're wrong about that as well.
Nick is so sure about Adalind being a good enough woman to be his girlfriend and maybe even his wife, but he's not sure enough of his feelings for her?
Yes, because Nick didn't start out thinking that Adalind was going to become his gf or even maybe future wife. She was someone who he was forced to live with for the sake of their baby, a relationship with her was out of the equation (initially). He still loved Juliette at the beginning of Season 5, despite all the horrible things she did to him, and he was grieving for her. Nick started to like Adalind more and more when he got to know her and as he began to heal from his grief. This was due in part because he saw how nice and warm she could be, and was amazed what a great mother she turned out to be. I already cited my reasons why Nick was confused about his feelings for her, and several posters have also pinpointed them as well. Please feel free to read their theories if you don't like mine.
Quote:Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said Nick didn't care about Adalind at all.
Again, you wrote that Nick had no other choice but Adalind because Juliette left him, you stated that he settled for less with her, and even threw in a line that you wouldn't be surprised if down the track, they would look back and realise that they settled for less with each other. Settling for someone less implies that you only hooked up with that person because you couldn't find anyone else, rather than based on love. The image you created was a man like Nick, who was handsome, stable and successful in his job, was such a pathetic creature that he had no choice but to settle with a person he despised because no girl after Juliette could ever go for him.
Quote:Lust is a very strong sexual desire and it's a serious thing. You can whitewash it all you want by adding , "that is not the same as cheating".
Um...I don't know if you're aware of this but if you check out someone attractive, you are actually in lust with them. Why else would you look? A beautiful woman with amazing curves is sure to attract attention from men both taken and not taken, and chances are, the thoughts that would run through their minds would be of the impure kind. Are we in some alternate reality that checking out someone attractive is not considered lustful? Women do the same thing, they check out handsome men not because they admire them as they do a painting or a nice pair of shoes, but rather because they want to imagine what it's like to sleep with them. That is human nature, our primal base instincts revolve around food and sex (procreating).
Quote:I don't see this about Nick. I never, ever got the impression he was lusting after Adalind.
I guess you once again missed out on a vital episode, like the pilot episode where we are first introduced to Nick and his partner Hank. And where Nick also experiences his first woge upon seeing Adalind. Prior to his woge however, he was checking her out, and even Hank makes a comment about it. You also must have missed out on the episode where Nick slept with Juliette as Adalind to regain his powers, where his reaction was of enjoyment rather than disgust once Juliette reassures him that everything would still be fine between them.
Quote:If you were talking about Renard, I would totally agree with you. Adalind fell in love with Renard, but she kept her career, she had her own apartment, she was a hexenbiest who could do hexenbiest things, and she even had time for some sexual flings when she and Renard parted company. She was fun and funny, always scheming and she had fun at it. That's what made her character.
You forgot to mention that she was groomed by her mother to be a sexual plaything for the Royals and for Renard, and Renard slept with her mother just for the fun of it. Imagine what that must have been like for a young Adalind, knowing that the people you loved thought you so insignificant and unworthy as to not consider your feelings when they decided to sleep together. Also, Renard pretty much ruined her life, using her to try to destroy Nick and causing her to lose her powers. And when she did lose her powers, she was not only slapped by her mother, insulted by Renard, but also kicked out of her house. Adalind may have been initially the fun, evil, scheming girl but based on what we later find out about her character, that was only a persona she adopted to please her mother and Renard. And we see this even in season 1, where Catherine and Renard discuss their displeasure of Adalind because sometimes she fails to live up to their expectations. Also, Adalind started changing in season 3 after she had Diana It wasn't due to Nick, rather it was loving her own child that made her want to start to change. It wasn't that Adalind suddenly had a complete personality transplant, rather I suspect it was because her hidden 'real' personality started to surface once she stopped trying to put up the sexy evil image front.
Quote:How much fun did you see her having with Nick in the fome now? Now, before you tell me how sweet and nice she is and how Kelly takes up oh so much of her time, consider this.
]Nick is the star of the show, he's the grimm. Is the creative team really going to give Nick some serious competition by making Adalind the scheming hexenbiest with a career doing her own thing while living with him? Not on your life. She's been reduced to human background, a domesticated mouse who was suddenly deathly afraid of being a hexenbiest around Nick and totally afraid of doing her own thing. What was done to her character was a travesty. If you get time, peruse some of the other grimm forums. I'm not the only one who misses the old Adalind.
My initial post was about why Nick and Adalind clicked. You are shifting the topic to whether or not it was fair of the writers to tamp down Adalind's wild side in order to be a proper partner for Nick. But okay, let me try to go with this. In my opinion, if Adalind had remained the same old Adalind in season 1, the evil scheming seductress, then she would be nothing more than a 1 dimensional character with no capacity for good, just all evil. And Nick and Adalind's interactions would just be a redux of their relationship in season 1-3. I don't see why Adalind shouldn't have been given a progression in her character. The writers may have dropped the ball in the way they wrote that progression, but the overall idea wasn't bad. Yes, Adalind could have been written to be more sassy in order to stay true to her character, but her reasons for being afraid of becoming a hexenbiest again was entirely reasonable. She knew what it was like to have a biest living inside her, which made her do lots of bad things, she also saw the destruction that Juliette caused with the biest inside her. Adalind had to turn to her own worst enemy because she had nothing else, Juliette was trying to kill her, the Royals were plotting against her too, she realised her powers were no match for Juliette's, and she was going to have a baby with no money and no job and no place to stay. No wonder she felt helpless and afraid.
Quote:Nick wasn't always kind to her. Because he listened to his mother instead of his police training, he participated in kidnapping her first baby. As a result of that, he messed everything up. He hated her for what she did to Marie, and he took her hexenbiest powers away from her, causing even more trouble.
Yes, Nick wasn't kind to her, because she wasn't kind to him. They both did terrible things to each other, that's why I keep stating that it's no surprise that were reluctant to be together because of their bad history. Their turbulent history was the reason why they didn't trust each other, but despite it, they were able to overcome their problems as a couple.
Quote:Add to the fact that she raped him and ended up pregnant with Kelly. She wasn't even going to tell him he was a father to be. She was only forced to because she was booted out by the royals.
Adalind did rape him, although Nick doesn't seem to view it that way. However, she was only forced to do it because she wanted to see her daughter Diana. Again, no one is arguing that Nick and Adalind have done a lot of bad, nasty, horrible, mean things to each other. Despite their awful history and against all odds, they were able to make their relationship work for 20 long years.
Quote:I think it's rather arrogant to tell other posters they can't make comments about her. She's a fictional character and this isn't a thread discussing scripts about the series. It's asking for opinions. Not everyone is going to adore Adalind and write nothing other than compliments simply because you want them to unless you state that's what you're looking for when you start a thread.
How am I arrogant? You're the one who didn't even choose to stay on topic. I asked for reasons why they clicked together, and you gave me an explanation stating that they didn't have any choice coz no one else wanted them. How does that answer the original topic? If you disagreed, please at least list the reasons why and show evidence instead of stating what you think without any basis in the facts of the show. If you want, I can give you an example:
Nick and Adalind didn't click, so much as Nick decided to go with Adalind because he had a baby with her and longed for a family/domestic life like what Monroe and Rosalee had. He would have done anything to create a stable upbringing for Kelly, and Adalind was key to that stability. It wasn't so much to do with actual love, but rather for practical reasons why Nick would have chosen to go with Adalind in the end. She made him happy, and they were still happy after 20 years together, but falling in love was just merely a byproduct rather than their end goal. And Juliette made the choice easier for him, when she finally allowed him to let go of his guilt in the other world.
I would have understood that reasoning more so than what you gave me. All those things were a possibility, Nick was portrayed to be a domestic type of man, who longed for marriage and possibly even children with the woman he loved. We know this because we saw this in the pilot episode. Adalind was someone who would allow him to fulfil that desire of his. We also know that Nick wanted stability for his son because he told Adalind that he would never try to take away his son's mother after having lost his own mother himself. Stating that they were only settling for less without any proper explanation or saying things that were contrary to what has been seen in the show is stating your own bias, your mere conjecture.
Quote:The only one who compared Adalind to other women is you. You did that by bringing Juliette into the debate. Now you're bringing Rosalee into it. I merely stated that I think she and Nick settled for less.
Your statement about settling for less doesn't contribute anything to the original topic I started. I can easily state that Nick should have ended up with Monroe, because they would have made a better, happier couple than Monroe and Rosalee, or Adalind and Nick. You may be upset that Adalind was written to end up with Nick rather than becoming a single mother, but it does make sense for Adalind to be in a relationship with Nick. Whatever your feelings are about the writers choices for her, it wasn't unrealistic for the character Adalind to want to be with the man who she loves and makes her happy.
Quote:Are your opinions not your own interpretations? Do you really consider your opinions to be facts?
Yes, I consider my opinions to be based on facts, more so than yours do, because I cite evidence from the show. I argue my points by showing examples. You may interpret the scene differently, but so far, you have yet to show me any examples from the show to support your statements.
Quote:No, it's not my bias talking. It's only biased to you because I'm not agreeing with what you're saying. That's all this comes down to. You're annoyed because I don't see Nick and Adalind the same way you do.
Yes, it is your bias talking, because you state your opinions without any facts from the show. Again, please show me evidence that supports your view that doesn't contradict the main ideas from the show, and I'll gladly consider it.
Quote:Let me ask this: Do you really want to read pages and pages of posts, with everyone agreeing with the way you think? Just from the way you're arguing with me, I would say no. But, maybe you do.
I have read many posts here prior to joining this forum. I appreciate those who can argue logically and who cite evidence to support their views. I think it is you who is becoming over emotional about this, because you have called me arrogant just because I stated my annoyance with you.
Quote:You might want to read your very first post on this thread because it doesn't consist of facts.
Maybe you can point out exactly where you set the rules for this thread and told everyone to discuss facts and facts only, because what I see here is a thread asking for our thoughts
which ARE NOT facts.
Thoughts that would make logical sense, maybe I should have clarified. Your thoughts unfortunately contributed nothing to this thread. I asked for why Nick and Adalind clicked, you said that they settled for less, without any evidence to back up your claim. Merely your conjecture. But sure, I'll play nice with you. Feel free to come up with another suggestion that doesn't contribute to the discussion. I can think of a few: Nick and Adalind didn't click because Adalind was in love with Meisner all along, Nick and Adalind didn't click because Nick realised he would be much happier spending his life fighting wesen and nailing hot chicks. They might not make sense and may be contrary to what was seen on the show, but hey, as long as we're going on our thoughts, right?
Quote:Again, I think you're just peeved because I voiced my thoughts and so now you're trying to change the thread. If you want to, that's fine, just make sure you're clear and concise because it's apparent you are only looking for specific responses that everyone agrees with you about Nick and Adalind. Be specific and you'll get exactly what you want.
Change the thread? If you intended to stick to the original topic, you would give me reasons as to why Nick and Adalind clicked. The question wasn't 'Did Nick and Adalind click?' The question was 'Why did Nick and Adalind click?' Yes, there is a huge difference between those two questions. See if you can figure it out.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - rpmaluki - 09-01-2017
(08-31-2017, 10:03 PM)wesen Wrote: Oh yeah? Care to explain why Juliette as Eve in Season 5 kept warning Nick that once Adalind turned back into a hexenbiest, she couldn't be trusted? That was frankly none of Eve/Juliette's business since she and Nick weren't together anymore. They weren't even friends at that stage. And then she took it a step further and actually went to Adalind to confront her, warning her that she would kill Adalind if Adalind ever hurt Nick. How else to interpret that scene if Juliette/Eve had no interest in Nick anymore? Then Eve mentions she would do her best to look after Kelly, ignoring Adalind's role as his mother altogether. We move on to Season 6. In the Captain, Oh Captain episode, Nick is undressing to change into the clothes of Renard. Everyone else looks away from him as he undresses except for Eve/Juliette, and Nick glares at her, which causes her to turn away from him. Why would scenes like that be shown if it wasn't implying that Juliette/Eve didn't feel anything for Nick? Oh and if it wasn't clear for us, Juliette/Eve does a strange like woge after hearing Adalind and Nick's private conversation. As a viewer, I got the impression that her hexenbiest was trying to come out in a moment of jealousy but she was able to control it. Who knows, maybe another viewer might have interpreted the scene differently. But what was intentionally clear was the conversation that Juliette/Eve had with Diana about missing Nick and sometimes wanting him back. See, I mentioned these to you in detail, citing particular scenes to support my theories but you just say things without any evidence whatsoever. I sometimes wonder, did you even watch any of the episodes? Because it seems you either miss out on key details or ignore certain events that occurred in the show.Another sign in 6x03 that Eve was indeed Juliette (with all memories and emotions) was when they needed Nick to prove he wasn't Renard. They wanted to ask him a question that only Nick knew and she jumped to asked him but Adalind spoke up first and she looked shamefaced reinforced by the question Adalind asked and Nick's answers. Juliette/Eve knew Nick was in love with Adalind, that didn't stop her from having her own feelings (for him) until she saw them together with her own eyes when she was forced to stay at the loft until finally moving on/out on her own.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - irukandji - 09-01-2017
(08-31-2017, 10:03 PM)wesen Wrote: Change the thread? If you intended to stick to the original topic, you would give me reasons as to why Nick and Adalind clicked. The question wasn't 'Did Nick and Adalind click?' The question was 'Why did Nick and Adalind click?' Yes, there is a huge difference between those two questions. See if you can figure it out.
No it wasn't. Again, here is what you wrote:
Quote:I don't want to turn this into an Adalind vs Juliette bashing thread, I just want to give out some of the reasons why I think Adalind and Nick clicked much more than Nick and Juliette did.
That isn't the same thing as posting the question, "Why did Nick and Adalind click"? You never posted the question in your thread, nor were you specific that everyone had to agree with **what you think**
So why would I stick to the original topic when you yourself didn't even stick to the original topic? You stated you don't want to turn this into another Adalind vs Juliette bashing thread. Yet that's exactly what you did because you kept bringing Juliette into it.
And why not just tell me tell me you wanted to discuss why Nick and Adalind clicked when you saw my first post. That's it. Simple. Instead you continued to argue with my posts and that led me to believe you wanted to debate. *You* did that, not me.
Next time, be clear. No one knows exactly what you want to discuss when all you do is tell others what you think and don't pose the question you should have asked in the first place.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - jsgrimm45 - 09-01-2017
(09-01-2017, 12:55 AM)rpmaluki Wrote:This isn't about Nick and Adalind but it does deal with this question and why Nick and Adalind could come together as a family. Eve/Juliette was healed by the stick this changed her hexenbiest spirit somehow it cleaned it in someway.(08-31-2017, 10:03 PM)wesen Wrote: Oh yeah? Care to explain why Juliette as Eve in Season 5 kept warning Nick that once Adalind turned back into a hexenbiest, she couldn't be trusted? That was frankly none of Eve/Juliette's business since she and Nick weren't together anymore. They weren't even friends at that stage. And then she took it a step further and actually went to Adalind to confront her, warning her that she would kill Adalind if Adalind ever hurt Nick. How else to interpret that scene if Juliette/Eve had no interest in Nick anymore? Then Eve mentions she would do her best to look after Kelly, ignoring Adalind's role as his mother altogether. We move on to Season 6. In the Captain, Oh Captain episode, Nick is undressing to change into the clothes of Renard. Everyone else looks away from him as he undresses except for Eve/Juliette, and Nick glares at her, which causes her to turn away from him. Why would scenes like that be shown if it wasn't implying that Juliette/Eve didn't feel anything for Nick? Oh and if it wasn't clear for us, Juliette/Eve does a strange like woge after hearing Adalind and Nick's private conversation. As a viewer, I got the impression that her hexenbiest was trying to come out in a moment of jealousy but she was able to control it. Who knows, maybe another viewer might have interpreted the scene differently. But what was intentionally clear was the conversation that Juliette/Eve had with Diana about missing Nick and sometimes wanting him back. See, I mentioned these to you in detail, citing particular scenes to support my theories but you just say things without any evidence whatsoever. I sometimes wonder, did you even watch any of the episodes? Because it seems you either miss out on key details or ignore certain events that occurred in the show.Another sign in 6x03 that Eve was indeed Juliette (with all memories and emotions) was when they needed Nick to prove he wasn't Renard. They wanted to ask him a question that only Nick knew and she jumped to asked him but Adalind spoke up first and she looked shamefaced reinforced by the question Adalind asked and Nick's answers. Juliette/Eve knew Nick was in love with Adalind, that didn't stop her from having her own feelings (for him) until she saw them together with her own eyes when she was forced to stay at the loft until finally moving on/out on her own.
Eve/Juliette knew Nick for a long period and she knew that Nick could never of look on her again with love becasue his mother's death. Now if you leave a relationship buy mutual agreement as they had done in season 6 should we (I hate this word) assume that Eve/Juliette doesn't want anyone including others to cause pain to Nick and she thinks she has cause so much.
She also see Nick and Adalind trying to make and getting it done a Grimm hexenbiest thing work, but is worried that Adalind beast may not let this happen? So she has to question what will Adalind become, the good mother or the good hexenbiest?
Eve/Juliette doesn't want Nick back but feels she owes him some peace and hopes Adalind can give it to Nick but does have some doubts?
Thoughts ideas from this point?
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - Robyn - 09-01-2017
I don’t think we can have an in-depth discussion about the Nick/Adalind relationship without considering outside influences - the Nick/Juliette relationship, Juliette human & Hexenbiest, Renard, the Royals, and most of all, Nick and Adalind’s antagonistic relationship and who/what was stimulating it. To set aside four seasons of stimuli and look only at Nick and Adalind would be akin to analyzing the slow disintegration of the Nick/Juliette relationship without taking into account Adalind’s direct attacks and Renard’s behind the scenes manipulations.
That said, the idea that Nick/Juliette was doomed because Juliette became the big bad wolf devouring their chance at happiness is unfounded and bias. Juliette came into the bizarre Grimm/Wesen world as a human compared to Adalind who was born and raised in the commonplace Grimm/Wesen world. Even when briefly human, Adalind was never going to live the stereotypical Ozzie & Harriet lifestyle because her children were part of the Grimm/Wesen world. For Adalind, Nick was a step up from her continual chaotic life because he offered a safe haven without the compensation she was accustomed to paying. However, prior to becoming a Hexenbiest Juliette could have distanced herself from the Grimm/Wesen world and aimed for that elusive Ozzie & Harriet lifestyle.
For me, much of the controversy surrounding the validity of Nick/Adalind or the cause of Nick/Juliette failing is due to the creative team using characters and relationships as props instead of the impetus driving the on-going story. That I can understand why Nick and Adalind had trust issues is little consolation for the creative team bouncing them wherever needed for a given episode. How little attention was G & K giving to the characters and their story if it took them ten aired episodes to realize Nick/Adalind wasn’t going in the direction they wanted?
(08-31-2017, 12:31 AM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: The problem with Nick and Juliette was that everything just went on too long. Nick took too long to reveal his secret, Juliette's amnesia took too long to resolve, Nick and Juliette deciding that Nick needed to get his Grimm back, etc. By the time Juliette went hexenbiest and their relationship went all to hell for the fourth time in as many seasons, it was like an old Monty Python gag that needed a mob yelling, "get on with it!"I actually prefer critical issues being reconciled over time, just not the way the show handled it. I don’t think Nick/Juliette ‘went all to hell’ as much as they suffered an endless cycle of contrived woe is me. Realistically, Nick & Juliette’s initial issues should have been drawn out while they lived separately wavering between reconciliation and ending the relationship.
Nick and Adalind, OTOH, fell for each other after a long time as adversaries, and once they did were considerate enough to not jerk us around a lot before The End.
But in the same fashion that Nick & Adalind became a couple, Nick & Juliette remained a couple by only addressing superficial problems. Adalind intended to kill Marie and Juliette. Nick and his friends stole Diane. Those two elephants in the room were never bumped into much less tripped over.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - brandon - 09-01-2017
Nick's first secret was not so easy to say,being that she considered him crazy.
What Eva said about Adalind to Nick this based on the memories of Juliette
and he was also important to the organization HW-not just for Eve-
if Nick liked the dragon's kiss,also could enjoy the night before the wedding-He thought it was Juliette.-
nobody is saying around there in broad daylight that is a masochist
or talking about their sexuality.