+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Why Nick and Adalind clicked (/Thread-Why-Nick-and-Adalind-clicked)
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - rpmaluki - 12-27-2017
(12-27-2017, 12:54 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-27-2017, 12:37 PM)rpmaluki Wrote:(12-27-2017, 12:26 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-27-2017, 12:20 PM)Henry of green Wrote: That really annoys you to the core doesn’t it ,Irk, that Adalind didn’t want to leave Nick because your opinion of Nick is so low. Thought was nothing that even hinted on the show that Adalind would want to leave nick. Adalind script quoutes below.
Wasn't the debate about whether Nick and Adalind got married?
Nick's feelings for Adalind was the debate. I remember you saying Nick wasn't the marrying type and several pages later, here we all are.
I actually was not the one who brought up that Nick was married.
Correct. I actually brought it up when I posted about Nick at the beginning of 1x01 when he bought the ring for juliette.
The debate was still about Nick's feelings for Adalind and I used the first episode to draw differences between the stages on Nick's relationships with the two women in his life by the time he's standing in Monroe's house after Zerstörer's death. The initial debate was never about marriage, at least not from my end.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - irukandji - 12-27-2017
(12-27-2017, 12:29 PM)Henry of green Wrote: Irk, canon G&k are the ultimate canon and you dismissed them at times so does canon matter to you, when they siad Nick and Adalind are still together in the epilogue I believe you even called them liars. Plus G&k often used Grimm wiki to keep on top of the Grimm world they created so it is a very good source. But I also agree with you G&k only siad they were together not married so yes you can dismiss Grimm wiki if you wish. But they are a much more reliable source for Grimm than any other site.
henry, do you even read what you post? Let me quote it:
Quote: By the way here is the runners Grimm wiki explanation of why they have Nick and Adalinds status as married at the end of the series after a poster posed the question to them.
Yeah, there was some discussion about this after the series finale, as you can probably imagine, but what helped out was the EPs saying in a few interviews that "Mom and Dad" referred to Nick and Adalind, and that it was safe to assume they were together in the 20 years later epilogue to add to the "fairy tale" ending they ultimately wanted. Your point about couples living together without getting married is well taken, but I think in this instance, knowing what we know about these characters and what the EPs have said, it's okay to update their relationship. After Eve's big monologue to Nick in episode 611, that really helped free the ties that had bound him to her, perhaps what finally allowed him the ability to tell Adalind he loved her without having any mixed feelings of regret and move forward with their relationship.
First of all, you don't even quote the question or who responded to this. Was it G or K?
Secondly, if it is one of them, why don't they just state it's a fact, rather than the statement, "it's okay to update their relationship"? Don't they know? After all it is their show.
You're just as picky as I am so please don't point fingers and accuse me of questioning canon when you don't even quote the entire question or answer.
BTW, G&K are liars. During an interview someone shouted out from the audience accusing one of them of "speaking with a forked tongue". Last time I read that, it was not a compliment, and is in fact calling them liars. Don't forget, they were the ones who said Juliette was dead when in fact, she was not.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - dicappatore - 12-27-2017
I am going to try to recap all the claims I been reading for the last 2 days on this thread.
Nick and Adalind’s early relationship was adversary, even after he saw her voge for the 1st time in the pilot episode.
We jump ahead to S5. Their relationship now involves a child they have in common. Nick and Adalind’s put aside their differences for the sake of their unplanned son they gave birth to. His relationship now became more of a protectorate of his son and that protection crosses over to his mother, Adalind.
Now here is where the masters of deceit claim that he/they started to sleep together with no love between them. The initial reason for them sleeping in the same bed had nothing to do with love. There was no sex or spooning involved. Nick started to sleep in the same bed, because Adalind asked him out of fear of her and her kid’s safety. There is a scene where she asked him for that exact and only reason. At this point, they were still in the same protectorate relationship.
Eventually, after sleeping and living so close to each other, the protectorate relationship evolved into much more. There is another scene when they realized what was evolving and they both agreed to be cautious. When it eventually evolved into a love relationship, sex became an eventual progression.
For anyone to claim that the beginning of them sleeping together without love is exactly that. There was no love. YET. Just because he was sleeping in the same bed, only someone with a bias twist would make it an issue out of a non-issue.
The other ridiculous comments about how much screen time was involved comparing Nick/Juliette screen time to Nick Adalind screen time is another preposterous comparison. Nick/Juliette were an item for almost 4 seasons, plus flashback scenes. If you detract most of the episodes from season 2, you still get over 60 plus episodes of them being an item.
As for Nick/Adalind seasons as an item and without bothering to look up in which episode they became an item, since it will just be discounted, you end up with half a S5 and S6. Last time I looked, S6 was the last season and it was only 13 episodes. So, unless, I missed 9 more episodes of S6 and, at least, two more additional seasons. Why would anyone bother to make this comparison? Why? WHY?
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - Henry of green - 12-27-2017
(12-27-2017, 03:45 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-27-2017, 12:29 PM)Henry of green Wrote: Irk, canon G&k are the ultimate canon and you dismissed them at times so does canon matter to you, when they siad Nick and Adalind are still together in the epilogue I believe you even called them liars. Plus G&k often used Grimm wiki to keep on top of the Grimm world they created so it is a very good source. But I also agree with you G&k only siad they were together not married so yes you can dismiss Grimm wiki if you wish. But they are a much more reliable source for Grimm than any other site.
henry, do you even read what you post? Let me quote it:
Quote: By the way here is the runners Grimm wiki explanation of why they have Nick and Adalinds status as married at the end of the series after a poster posed the question to them.
Yeah, there was some discussion about this after the series finale, as you can probably imagine, but what helped out was the EPs saying in a few interviews that "Mom and Dad" referred to Nick and Adalind, and that it was safe to assume they were together in the 20 years later epilogue to add to the "fairy tale" ending they ultimately wanted. Your point about couples living together without getting married is well taken, but I think in this instance, knowing what we know about these characters and what the EPs have said, it's okay to update their relationship. After Eve's big monologue to Nick in episode 611, that really helped free the ties that had bound him to her, perhaps what finally allowed him the ability to tell Adalind he loved her without having any mixed feelings of regret and move forward with their relationship.
First of all, you don't even quote the question or who responded to this. Was it G or K?
Secondly, if it is one of them, why don't they just state it's a fact, rather than the statement, "it's okay to update their relationship"? Don't they know? After all it is their show.
You're just as picky as I am so please don't point fingers and accuse me of questioning canon when you don't even quote the entire question or answer.
BTW, G&K are liars. During an interview someone shouted out from the audience accusing one of them of "speaking with a forked tongue". Last time I read that, it was not a compliment, and is in fact calling them liars. Don't forget, they were the ones who said Juliette was dead when in fact, she was not.
What on earth are you talking about that post as I explianed is by the Grimm wiki runners not G&k they were explaining why they changed thier relationship to married on the Grimm wiki site, they are just saying G&k give multiple interviews saying nick and Adalind were still together at the end which they did.
You are the one who didn’t read the post correctly. Your bitterness towards how the show ended is clear that’s why you constantly have to make nonsense up , like saying Nick is not into marriage when the guy never shut up about marriage. You are the one calling the people who ran the show lairs simply beacuse they stated nick and Adalind are still together 20 years later the bitterness is dripping through your key board. Seriously it’s about time you got over this nick and Adalind thing if I hated a couple so much I wouldn’t constantly keep writing about them as you do trying to convince yourself the show ended differently. The writers have informed the fans how the show ended you can take it or leave it but what they say is canon.
By the way here is the the full context of the Grimm wiki post below.
This is what the poster on Grimm wiki asked the site runners.
You guys stated that Nick Burkhardt was her husband, but it is never mentioned that one of them proposed or they got married. The 20 year into the future look only states "Mom and Dad are waiting." Juliette and Nick lives together for 4-5 years without getting married, and many parents/couples have raised children and/or lived with each other for decades without getting married. It isn't altogether too uncommon, and it's a little presumptuous to assume they did get married, since it isn't even alluded to at any point in the series.
And this statments I posted earlier is just thier response I will explain this to agian this is the Grimm wiki site runners not G&k.
Yeah, there was some discussion about this after the series finale, as you can probably imagine, but what helped out was the EPs saying in a few interviews that "Mom and Dad" referred to Nick and Adalind, and that it was safe to assume they were together in the 20 years later epilogue to add to the "fairy tale" ending they ultimately wanted. Your point about couples living together without getting married is well taken, but I think in this instance, knowing what we know about these characters and what the EPs have said, it's okay to update their relationship. After Eve's big monologue to Nick in episode 611, that really helped free the ties that had bound him to her, perhaps what finally allowed him the ability to tell Adalind he loved her without having any mixed feelings of regret and move forward with their relationship.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - irukandji - 12-27-2017
(12-27-2017, 04:38 PM)Henry of green Wrote: What on earth are you talking about that post as I explianed is by the Grimm wiki runners not G&k they were explaining why They changed thier relationship to married on the Grimm wiki site they are just saying G&k give multiple interviews saying nick and Adalind were still together at the end which they did.
First you're talking about canon, then the end of the show, then the grimm wiki runners stating this. Your posts were confusing. I had no idea what you were trying to state.
I get what you're stating now. There is no evidence to show that Nick and Adalind were married.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - Henry of green - 12-27-2017
I don’t have a problem with you saying you don’t think thier married G&k just said they were togther not married. But I do have a problem with you stating nick wasn’t into marriage that’s simply not true. Also I was just saying grimm wiki is a pretty legit site used by the Grimm writers to fact check information on the show.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - irukandji - 12-27-2017
(12-27-2017, 04:57 PM)Henry of green Wrote: I don’t have a problem with you saying you don’t think thier married G&k just said they were togther not married. But I do have a problem with you stating nick wasn’t into marriage that’s simply not true. Also I was just saying grimm wiki is a legit site used by the Grimm writers to fact check information on the show the writers have even mentioned they used for information they had forgotten.
Well henry, you shouldn't have a problem with that. My opinion is as valid as yours, as you have stated from time to time.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - irukandji - 12-27-2017
(12-27-2017, 11:11 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Conditions are different. Nick had been eager to take things to the next level before he even lost his Grimm after she knew the truth and she turned him down. There's a difference between hypothetical, potential children and Kelly existing in the flesh. Adalind never presented Nick with a choice of either Grimm or family life, the two were already synonymous since she could no more separate her hexenbiest from her family life. Juliette made it seem like they couldn't have both family and Nick as a Grimm, one had to be sacrificed.
In all fairness to Juliette, she didn't hook up with Nick the Grimm. She hooked up with Nick the cop. She didn't have a choice when Nick began to experience the physical signs that led him to be a grimm. Could Nick have ignored the symptoms and remained a detective once he knew all there was to being a grimm? We'll never know because he never gave Juliette a choice. When Marie warned him about staying with Juliette, even then, he didn't reveal anything to her.
I understand Juliette wanting the normal life. She spoke to Nick about it, but I never got the impression she was giving him a choice. It sounded to me like Nick himself was setting up the choices, with normalcy on one end and the grimm life on the other.
(12-27-2017, 11:11 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Nick clearly didn't since he continued to propose marriage and would have asked again in S3 had his mother not showed up with Adalind and baby Diana. He only considered the consequences of being in a relationship when Juliette became a hexenbiest and was attacked and eventually killed by Zerstörer, he had no such thoughts concerning Adalind. In fact he did everything to he knew possible to get her back.
I would consider multiple proposals if Nick did what he did the first time he proposed. In other words, he asked Juliette to marry him and presented her with a ring as a token of his troth. That did not happen.
Instead, Nick was interrupted by circumstances which, actually weren't beyond his control. He could have found another time and place to propose (the couch is rather tacky), but instead it seems to me that Nick might have been relieved that he avoided the plunge.
(12-27-2017, 11:11 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: A marriage cannot exist unless two both people chose to marry (these days forced marriages are frowned upon and hardly ever take place anymore because society has evolved and rightfully so), as the Bible says, how can two people walk together unless they both agree? Nick and Juliette had plenty of opportunities to "walk together" on the important issues in their relationship and sadly, deep down they never agreed, hence Juliette denying Nick's proposal not once but twice before Nick's grimmlessness/her hexenbiestness became a serious thorn in their side.
You also mentioned that no marriage can be built on lies and secrets and survive. I agree with this. Nick's grimm lifestyle is one of secrets and I think this is a major reason why Nick chose not to marry.
Nick's grimm lifestyle, to put it mildly, is bizarre. He's had all sorts of weird encounters with wesen and has been personally affected by some of them. Take the muse, for instance. Nick was lovesick as the result of her spell. He didn't confide in anyone about the effects, became violent, and was heading down a path of destruction. Fortunately, Renard stepped in and forced the muse out of town. Juliette was left to clean up the mess, which she did gladly, as Nick stood by her while she was in coma.
It's conceivable that Nick could very easily encounter another muse. There will be no Renard to force her out of town or an understanding Juliette to pick up the pieces, should there be a rescue for Nick. To add an additional burden, Adalind has never had to deal with the peculiar physical effects that Nick has personally experienced.
At least as Nick's domestic partner, Adalind has the freedom to leave if it gets too much for her. As a wife, she doesn't have that freedom.
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - rpmaluki - 12-27-2017
(12-27-2017, 08:10 PM)irukandji Wrote: In all fairness to Juliette, she didn't hook up with Nick the Grimm. She hooked up with Nick the cop. She didn't have a choice when Nick began to experience the physical signs that led him to be a grimm. Could Nick have ignored the symptoms and remained a detective once he knew all there was to being a grimm? We'll never know because he never gave Juliette a choice. When Marie warned him about staying with Juliette, even then, he didn't reveal anything to her.
I understand Juliette wanting the normal life. She spoke to Nick about it, but I never got the impression she was giving him a choice. It sounded to me like Nick himself was setting up the choices, with normalcy on one end and the grimm life on the other.
Juliette still made a choice. She knew he was lying about something and that's a big red flag but whatever. She didn't sign up for Nick the Grimm in S1 but she did by the end of S2 so nobody forced her against her will to stay with a grimm, knowing what she knew about the dangers etc. Nick was already a cop when they met he was a protector by nature, his grimm nature took that to another level, if she truly knew Nick, she'd know he couldn't live a normal life after becoming a grimm and then losing it the way he did. It wasn't a choice he made and he felt like a part of him was missing just like Adalind did immediately after Nick killed her hexenbiest but not so severely.
Juliette went behind his back to Monroe and Rosalee asking them not to find a cure for Nick's grimmlessness or something to that effect, that sounds like a choice to me and one that at the time she made without Nick's knowledge. At the least she's as guilty of the same thing as Nick. He wanted his grimm back and she didn't and neither was honest with the other. The Wesenrein going after Monroe made the choice forced their hand as Juliette decided of her own free will to give Nick what he wanted. Being a main ingredient isn't being forced to participate. Juliette had a choice and she made it. Unfortunately the consequences of remaining with Nick from the first episode until S4 kept getting steeper and steeper but let's not kid ourselves about the part she chose to play. She is a grown woman and could have left Nick from day one of the show, but she didn't.
(12-27-2017, 08:10 PM)irukandji Wrote: You also mentioned that no marriage can be built on lies and secrets and survive. I agree with this. Nick's grimm lifestyle is one of secrets and I think this is a major reason why Nick chose not to marry.This was Juliette in the first episode, no amount of twisting the show changes the fact that Juliette refused Nick over his secrecy and lies. He bought the ring before he became a Grimm or knew about his heritage and what that meant for his life and those he loved and at that time, he hadn't lied to Juliette. That came after the Grimm kicked in.
(12-27-2017, 08:10 PM)irukandji Wrote: Nick's grimm lifestyle, to put it mildly, is bizarre. He's had all sorts of weird encounters with wesen and has been personally affected by some of them. Take the muse, for instance. Nick was lovesick as the result of her spell. He didn't confide in anyone about the effects, became violent, and was heading down a path of destruction. Fortunately, Renard stepped in and forced the muse out of town. Juliette was left to clean up the mess, which she did gladly, as Nick stood by her while she was in coma.Your what if scenario with the muse returning is just that, it's not reality or fact. Who cares if Renard isn't there to drive out the muse, Nick still has friends who have looked after him for years and will continue to do so regardless of the kinds of threats, minor or major Nick will face everyday. He's not some helpless whelp desperate for Renard's protection.
It's conceivable that Nick could very easily encounter another muse. There will be no Renard to force her out of town or an understanding Juliette to pick up the pieces, should there be a rescue for Nick. To add an additional burden, Adalind has never had to deal with the peculiar physical effects that Nick has personally experienced.
At least as Nick's domestic partner, Adalind has the freedom to leave if it gets too much for her. As a wife, she doesn't have that freedom.
It's not up to Juliette to clean up after Nick either, again his friends have done a bang up job of that and now Adalind has more than accepted her role in his life and has helped him anyway she could. She's a hexenbiest born and raised with knowledge about the wesen world not a novice like Juliette at the time. She was there for him when he needed a trust me knot and did her part getting the ingredients for the twinning spell in 6x03. She knew how to deal with the wesen that was sacrificing people and knew about the cupido and breaking his spell in the last season, she didn't stop him because they were all affected except for a pregnant Rosalee. She and Rosalee were the ones to come up with the Force du Sang against Zerstörer (it was Nick's grimm blood that actually defeated Z). The point is that Nick isn't shorting for allies just because Renard and Juliette aren't so relevant in his life as they were for not more than four out of six seasons between S1 to half of S5 .
As wife why would she leave him when she loves him and he loves her?
RE: Why Nick and Adalind clicked - irukandji - 12-28-2017
You seem to be implying that I'm somehow defending Renard for the muse incident. I am not. I'm simply stating he forced her to leave town and Juliette cleaned up the mess that was Nick afterward.
Nick has a bizarre life. He knows that. I think he avoided marriage because that is not the usual burden a man would place on his spouse. He may not meet up with a muse. He might meet up with some other kind of wesen, contract something that Rosalee might not be able to cure, and just have to live with it. That wouldn't be fair to a wife. These are all mights, but the more Nick risks himself as a defender in the wesen world, the greater his chances of becoming a victim.