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+---- Thread: S03E02 - PTZD (/Thread-S03E02-PTZD)
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - hot schade - 11-03-2013
(11-02-2013, 03:07 PM)pale boy Wrote:(11-02-2013, 09:06 AM)Courtney Wrote: It's at least been a few months that Adalind has known she's pregnant, right? How is it that her stomach is still completely flat?
I'm also curious to see what the issue with Nick is, that he keeps turning "dead" again...
Heh. That is an unanswerable question. Royal babies keep the abs tight?
Yeah, Nick being dead/alive is really weird. Didn't expect that. Glad to see that it'll impact him in some way.
LOL! some women gain weight as soon as they find out, some loose weight b/c of morning sickness, which i would suspect considering what she has been up to lately she's been going home pucking LOL!
with nick, he got two doses of evil green goo, although 2 doses of anti-zombie meds, but im thinking its his grimm side that is going a little haywire. i found it interesting that he was perfectly normal with easedropping on juliet, im guessing the hearing thing stuck after the bug eppy. that was so cool when he catched whatever hank threw at him LOL!
my only prob was juliet hitting him when he was unresponsive, im sure she could have just tapped his collar bone and it would have worked better.
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - grimmfreak - 11-03-2013
(11-03-2013, 04:52 PM)hot schade Wrote: im sure she could have just tapped his collar bone and it would have worked better.
this is true, a lot better ways of waking someone up, you would think she would know that
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - pale boy - 11-03-2013
(11-03-2013, 04:52 PM)hot schade Wrote: with nick, he got two doses of evil green goo, although 2 doses of anti-zombie meds, but im thinking its his grimm side that is going a little haywire. i found it interesting that he was perfectly normal with easedropping on juliet, im guessing the hearing thing stuck after the bug eppy. that was so cool when he catched whatever hank threw at him LOL!
my only prob was juliet hitting him when he was unresponsive, im sure she could have just tapped his collar bone and it would have worked better.
Yeah, his being a Grimm already was a problem for Baron Samedi, and then Nick was dosed twice ... and no one knows what that means.
To be fair to Juliette, the last thing anyone thinks of in a situation like that is being gentle. You definitely want your loved one to "wake up".
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - droid327 - 11-04-2013
The only thing that seemed to have changed between the start and end of the episode (for the Portland storyline) is that Nick killed someone. But its hardly the first time, he's knowingly killed lots of people. Its not like Nick himself hasn't lied to cover Grimm stuff up from the "unis" either. He's asked Monroe to kill someone for him. Heck, his mom murdered Adalind's mom pretty much in cold blood, and he just spirited her off to Greece. He knows the Captain is in on the "conspiracy" now too, so he's not just worried that they'll be caught in the lie. And he knows full well that Grimmagical stuff can make people do things they normally wouldn't do, after going through the whole Juliette amnesia thing, and its not really their fault when they behave strangely.
It just seemed like a huge hole in character development for them to dwell on that fact so much, at this point in the series.
Also, Adalind has her powers back now...but can Nick just make her lose them again by making her taste his blood again? It seems like a horribly easy vulnerability to exploit, to the point that once Nick knew, she couldn't go anywhere near him again for fear he'd get a drop on her lips, and then all that corpsecraft was for naught.
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - Lou - 11-04-2013
I actually agree with you Droid, and I think the writers did make too big a deal of this. But I will point out a few things in the writers defense.
At the time, before he saw the video, he didn't know that guy came at him with a knife. He must have thought he killed an innocent bystander.
Up until now I think most of the guys he killed was while he was in cop-mode. He killed them because they were resisting arrest or in self defense. (The BIG exception to this was when he had Monroe lure those guys out of the hotel so that he kill them. He didn't ask for them to surrender and the only crime they were guilty of was beating up Monroe. so that was not only poorly justified but mostly him acting like a Grimm and killing "bad" wesson.)
Most if not all the people he has killed were "bad" wesson. And we know that dealing with the Grimm side of him and the cop side has been a challenge to him.
This death sort of fell out of the normal range for him. He wasn't acting as a cop, he wasn't acting as a Grimm, the victim wasn't a bad wesson or resisting arrest or anything. He did all that crazy stuff while he was a Zombie. A good lawyer could get him off - its just that the trial and testimony would be really really crazy.
Not taking responsibility and having everyone involved in the cover - up was totally the "right" thing to do. It just goes against Nick's "cop nature".
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - Gretel Hanselsister - 11-04-2013
(11-04-2013, 01:46 AM)droid327 Wrote: Also, Adalind has her powers back now...but can Nick just make her lose them again by making her taste his blood again? It seems like a horribly easy vulnerability to exploit, to the point that once Nick knew, she couldn't go anywhere near him again for fear he'd get a drop on her lips, and then all that corpsecraft was for naught.
Welcome to the forum!
You made a very good point. It's really not that difficult to take her powers a second time. And I wonder why Renard still has the ability to woge into Zauberbiest. He cosumed some drops of Nick-blood, too. You remember the potion Rosalee gave to him and Juliette to stop their obsessive behaviour? One of the ingredients was Nick-blood. (S2E14 Natural Born Wesen)
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - grimmfreak - 11-04-2013
very good points Droid and welcome to the forum. ANd yes, technically I guess Renard did have some of Nick's blood. I imagine the writers night say that in Renards case it was mixed into a potion and therefore maybe changed somehow or another possibility is that there might be differences in male (Zuerbeists) and Female (Hexenbeists) other than the traditional things we think of, or they might say his royal blood protected him.
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - speakeasy - 11-04-2013
(11-04-2013, 07:34 AM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote: Welcome to the forum!
You made a very good point. It's really not that difficult to take her powers a second time. And I wonder why Renard still has the ability to woge into Zauberbiest. He cosumed some drops of Nick-blood, too. You remember the potion Rosalee gave to him and Juliette to stop their obsessive behaviour? One of the ingredients was Nick-blood. (S2E14 Natural Born Wesen)
Welcome, droid 327
Hi, Gretal, I liked the way the Captain spoke German, too! There is a scene where Rosalee pours the vial containing Grimm blood into the anti-obsession potion in Juliette's cup, but not the Captain's, I believe. But it's comical recalling the purification process that both Sean and Nick had to go through - Sean tore his clothes half off, blew black smoke out of his nose, bounced off the walls and did everything but sprout horns before passing out for awhile. Nick bent over in pain, and fell down for a couple of minutes before waking up. As if we needed proof, the Captain must have been a very, very bad boy, indeed!
@: pale boy
I agree with you that Juliette's slapping Nick would be natural. A sharp slap to the face could bring a person back from falling into a deep unconsciousness, which is a dangerous state. Good catch on pointing out the choice of name Sean's mother gave him, too
Does anyone know anything about House Lorraine? Supposed to be one of the seven. It has been revealed that Eric was a crown prince of the House of Kronenberg (also one of the seven royal houses). I am wondering if Sean is also. Probably so, because of his father being King, but if the connection is on Queen Renard's side, maybe not.
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - HellJacket - 11-04-2013
(11-04-2013, 07:30 AM)Lou Wrote: At the time, before he saw the video, he didn't know that guy came at him with a knife. He must have thought he killed an innocent bystander.This is a good example of television writing that uses the technique: if all the characters in a show believe something, then it must be true. The problem here is that even if the "guy came at him with a knife", that guy is still an innocent bystander. Without looking at Oregon's self-defense laws (and no, I don't feel like doing that), Nick is a criminal aggressor in that situation, and doesn't stop being the aggressor just because someone tries to take him down. Think of it like this situation. If someone decides to rob a bank, and during the bank robbery, one of the armed guards pulls a gun on the bank robber. Is the bank robber allowed to show the armed guard? Hell no! This situation (ignoring Nick being drugged) is the same here. That guy with a knife remains an innocent bystander even though he pulled a knife (ignoring what Oregon's self defense laws say, which may change this position).
(11-04-2013, 07:30 AM)Lou Wrote: He did all that crazy stuff while he was a Zombie. A good lawyer could get him off - its just that the trial and testimony would be really really crazy.If Nick could prove the wessen-nature of the Baron, AND show that the Baron had the ability to turn people into zombies, AND show that the Baron forcefully used this power on him, Nick would get off. The problem is that he likely has to prove all these elements (ignoring what Oregon case law says about this defense which may add or remove some). A great lawyer would have trouble doing the above.
FYI, in real life, most jurisdictions don't consider simply being high/drugged as a defense to a crime. Usually it has to be a mistake/accident (i.e., have an unknown reaction to prescription medication) or someone has to force you to take the drug. Otherwise, when a guy gets drunk and beats his wife, he's technically innocent every time.
-Edit: And now that I think about it, a temporary insanity defense would be pretty good in this situation. The problem remains that you have to prove the existence of the zombie drug, and without the Baron, that is unlikely to happen in the court of law (everything Rosalee knows about the drug is hearsay for instance, and I doubt she'd pass the legal standard for an expert witness).
RE: S03E02 - PTZD - droid327 - 11-04-2013
(11-04-2013, 11:04 AM)HellJacket Wrote: The problem remains that you have to prove the existence of the zombie drug, and without the Baron, that is unlikely to happen in the court of law (everything Rosalee knows about the drug is hearsay for instance, and I doubt she'd pass the legal standard for an expert witness).
Why does it have to be a Wesen-based zombie drug? Why cant they just claim its some kind of experimental psychotropic drug that was given to Nick in an extremely concentrated dose by the mysterious malefactor, Thomas Chirac?
You have the testimony of maybe ten officers that were cleaning up the "zombie farm" at the storage yard. You have the testimony of all the zombies themselves that were cured and had no memory of their actions while under its effects. You have Rosalie, who could at least give some testimony as to its general pharmacology. The existence of _a_ drug is clearly established, the problem only lies in describing the nature of the drug (magical vs pharmaceutical) - but, really, that's immaterial as far as the case against Nick...he wouldn't have to determine what the drug is, only demonstrate what it does.
Burden of proof is on the prosecution, after all, and I think all that is more than enough to establish reasonable doubt - I don't think the DA would even seek to indict in a case like this, especially not with a cop of Nick's stature, with absolutely no motive to try and argue for.