(05-19-2015, 08:07 AM)LisaMVA Wrote:

(05-18-2015, 03:17 PM)irukandji Wrote: I don't agree, Belle. I saw how he looked at her when she was a hexenbiest. That was the coldest, most ruthless thing I have ever seen Nick do. If he loved her as much as you claim, he would have looked past the hexenbiest to find that true love. It was over for them long ago. I think both of them tried to hold on, but from my view, that's worse than just breaking it off cleanly.

I could not agree more. ! All the compassion and love he showed Juliette, as she lay dying in Nick's arms....he showed none of that throughout her entire transformation. She was a "problem that needed to be fixed."

If Nick had had the balls and guts to look at her and actually KISS her while she was transformed, wow, that would have made a huge difference.

Who are we to judge why someone does or does not accept a marriage proposal>? Get outta town.

(05-19-2015, 07:39 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-18-2015, 08:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: 1. I can't remember if this happened or not, but did he bring Hank over to talk to Juliette? In all honesty, I don't know the best way to tell her about it. It just seemed strange to me that he took a while to confide in her.


2. Can you recall if Nick ever tried to get to the heart of why Juliette refused him? As I said in my previous post, I didn't think the first proposal was made under the best of circumstances and their relationship was obviously strained. It seems like if Nick ignored that and then proposed again, Juliette would still refuse. Of course, it's not all Nick's fault either. Juliette could have brought out her reasons rather than simply stating one wedding's enough.


Tokens, some of my above post was directed to Belle. Sorry about that, I didn't expect you to have to respond again. That aside, you brought up something very interesting that caught my eye. Here's the snippet:

Quote:(even tho its actually Adalind to directly blame and both him and juliette a bit since they accepted taking the potion without knowing what may happen)

3. This is actually a very good point. Do you have any thoughts on what they might have done rather than take the potion?

1. Im pretty sure there was 2 times but i deff. recall atleast one specific time that Nick was actually trying to tell her but when she looked at him and smiled he couldn't do it,
my guess here is he knew how she would respond just like everyone else including himself did about, thinking said persons just crazy
and i suppose he could have brought hank in on it as well but my whole point was it wont really matter who's telling you, the person you love, a friend, when they say monsters are real
and nicks job is to kill them you'd have to think their crazy

for me with the whole "Grimm" secret it seemed(to me atleast) Nick wasn't trying to ever intentionally hid it from her rather figure out a way to word it and having evidence and Monroe ready to show her the proof, the Grimm's even in the series are fairy tales so you'd have to assume Nick's crazy and he found old fairy tale books that support his crazy

even hank and wu responded this way, its usually not till they see Monroe or Bud Woge that they actually believe, and as most Wesen say Woging in front of a plain old human is kinda a big deal for them (i can only assume it would be similar to the first time someone were to see someone else naked, need to trust the person and be willing or else itll be super uncomfortable even then probably still a little uncomfortable at first since they have no idea how the person going to react)


2. It is somewhat strange Nick didn't chase after a reason on his 2nd and 3rd proposals, on the second he accepted 1 wedding is enough as a reason which i don't think he should have, that couldn't have really been her reason and he probably knew it, I actually don't remember Juliette giving him and answer on the 3rd proposal at all which is kinda mean, if im recalling it correctly that is

But i see it as, when Juliette went into a coma we learned her and nick were seeing each other 3-4 years before the show was taking place, so by the end of season 4 it would have been 7-8 Years they were together, i don't feel like nick should have needed to chase the answers, and realistically 1 wedding is enough isn't an answer its an excuse

so yea they could both have a part of the blame but id have to lay more on Juliette for not speaking up even tho there was plenty of chances for her to, a proposal isn't really super easy for most guys to do and getting shot down 3 times i can only imagine would break his heart and make him feel like a child cause its totally out of his control that she says no over and over


3. This one comes down to Writing for me again, Juliette is the one who made the Final decision to give nick his "Grimm" back, but both her and Nick were forced into said decision
Elizabeth was about to leave town and was the only person who could make it, and Monroe and Rosalee were being hassled by the Wesenrein
They didn't have time to keep looking for answers and according to some there was none to be found anyway

But all that being said just cause they were forced to make a decision doesn't mean they were forced to give nick his "Grimm" back, they could have said nevermind
this to me is why the writing was to blame, they could have giving them another option later on if they said no, But that would have kinda made Nick character pointless till he got his
power back he would have need to purely rely on Trubel the entire time, which he was already doing up till this point

One way they could have had them say No and still have Nick somehow get his power back would be having nick rely only on Trubel, till she leaves town with josh, then there would have to be many situations when Wesen who know Nick's no longer a Grimm come looking for him, almost killing him, and although they never bring it up

Couldn't Trubel's blood give Nick his powers back? Shes got Grimm blood but from another bloodline so its different
That being said couldnt Trubel have removed Hexenbeast Juliette's powers? Nicks blood wont work cause it was already in Adalind and were being lead to assume Juliette got her powers directly from adalind protecting her from Nick grimm blood but not Trubels

(05-19-2015, 08:16 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-19-2015, 08:07 AM)LisaMVA Wrote:

(05-18-2015, 03:17 PM)irukandji Wrote: I don't agree, Belle. I saw how he looked at her when she was a hexenbiest. That was the coldest, most ruthless thing I have ever seen Nick do. If he loved her as much as you claim, he would have looked past the hexenbiest to find that true love. It was over for them long ago. I think both of them tried to hold on, but from my view, that's worse than just breaking it off cleanly.

I could not agree more. ! All the compassion and love he showed Juliette, as she lay dying in Nick's arms....he showed none of that throughout her entire transformation. She was a "problem that needed to be fixed."

If Nick had had the balls and guts to look at her and actually KISS her while she was transformed, wow, that would have made a huge difference.

Who are we to judge why someone does or does not accept a marriage proposal>? Get outta town.

i agree the kiss would have probably changed things

and i wasn't judging why or why not but simply saying not giving them an answer at all or only giving them an excuse when they ask to marry you when you live together and have dated for 4-6 years kinda seems mean, why couldn't she talk to him about it, he had to muster up the courage to ask her 3 different times cant she reciprocate the feelings and atleast talk to him straight up about it

(05-19-2015, 08:19 AM)LisaMVA Wrote:

(05-19-2015, 07:39 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-18-2015, 08:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: 1. I can't remember if this happened or not, but did he bring Hank over to talk to Juliette? In all honesty, I don't know the best way to tell her about it. It just seemed strange to me that he took a while to confide in her.


2. Can you recall if Nick ever tried to get to the heart of why Juliette refused him? As I said in my previous post, I didn't think the first proposal was made under the best of circumstances and their relationship was obviously strained. It seems like if Nick ignored that and then proposed again, Juliette would still refuse. Of course, it's not all Nick's fault either. Juliette could have brought out her reasons rather than simply stating one wedding's enough.


Tokens, some of my above post was directed to Belle. Sorry about that, I didn't expect you to have to respond again. That aside, you brought up something very interesting that caught my eye. Here's the snippet:

Quote:(even tho its actually Adalind to directly blame and both him and juliette a bit since they accepted taking the potion without knowing what may happen)

3. This is actually a very good point. Do you have any thoughts on what they might have done rather than take the potion?

1. Im pretty sure there was 2 times but i deff. recall atleast one specific time that Nick was actually trying to tell her but when she looked at him and smiled he couldn't do it,
my guess here is he knew how she would respond just like everyone else including himself did about, thinking said persons just crazy
and i suppose he could have brought hank in on it as well but my whole point was it wont really matter who's telling you, the person you love, a friend, when they say monsters are real
and nicks job is to kill them you'd have to think their crazy

for me with the whole "Grimm" secret it seemed(to me atleast) Nick wasn't trying to ever intentionally hid it from her rather figure out a way to word it and having evidence and Monroe ready to show her the proof, the Grimm's even in the series are fairy tales so you'd have to assume Nick's crazy and he found old fairy tale books that support his crazy

even hank and wu responded this way, its usually not till they see Monroe or Bud Woge that they actually believe, and as most Wesen say Woging in front of a plain old human is kinda a big deal for them (i can only assume it would be similar to the first time someone were to see someone else naked, need to trust the person and be willing or else itll be super uncomfortable even then probably still a little uncomfortable at first since they have no idea how the person going to react)


2. It is somewhat strange Nick didn't chase after a reason on his 2nd and 3rd proposals, on the second he accepted 1 wedding is enough as a reason which i don't think he should have, that couldn't have really been her reason and he probably knew it, I actually don't remember Juliette giving him and answer on the 3rd proposal at all which is kinda mean, if im recalling it correctly that is

But i see it as, when Juliette went into a coma we learned her and nick were seeing each other 3-4 years before the show was taking place, so by the end of season 4 it would have been 7-8 Years they were together, i don't feel like nick should have needed to chase the answers, and realistically 1 wedding is enough isn't an answer its an excuse

so yea they could both have a part of the blame but id have to lay more on Juliette for not speaking up even tho there was plenty of chances for her to, a proposal isn't really super easy for most guys to do and getting shot down 3 times i can only imagine would break his heart and make him feel like a child cause its totally out of his control that she says no over and over


3. This one comes down to Writing for me again, Juliette is the one who made the Final decision to give nick his "Grimm" back, but both her and Nick were forced into said decision
Elizabeth was about to leave town and was the only person who could make it, and Monroe and Rosalee were being hassled by the Wesenrein
They didn't have time to keep looking for answers and according to some there was none to be found anyway

But all that being said just cause they were forced to make a decision doesn't mean they were forced to give nick his "Grimm" back, they could have said nevermind
this to me is why the writing was to blame, they could have giving them another option later on if they said no, But that would have kinda made Nick character pointless till he got his
power back he would have need to purely rely on Trubel the entire time, which he was already doing up till this point

One way they could have had them say No and still have Nick somehow get his power back would be having nick rely only on Trubel, till she leaves town with josh, then there would have to be many situations when Wesen who know Nick's no longer a Grimm come looking for him, almost killing him, and although they never bring it up

Couldn't Trubel's blood give Nick his powers back? Shes got Grimm blood but from another bloodline so its different
That being said couldnt Trubel have removed Hexenbeast Juliette's powers? Nicks blood wont work cause it was already in Adalind and were being lead to assume Juliette got her powers directly from adalind protecting her from Nick grimm blood but not Trubels

You have explained things very well and rationally. You put a lot of insight and thoughtfulness into your response.
Juliette never "choose" this life; she wasn't born Wessen. I was so mad myself at her actions watching "You Don't Know Jack" that I went back and watched ALL the Grimm episodes from "The Grimm That Stole Christmas."
I do not condone Juliette's actions, but I understand how she got there: all her misery, it was Adeline using Juliette to get to Nick and destroy him. And, Adeline tried to kill Hank....Adeline was a villain from Day 1 and the character I most wanted DEAD. I think people accepted Adeline as the villain and the actress that plays her did a good job with getting most people to hate her.

Now Juliette: the final straw in the coffin: finding out Adeline is pregnant with the child that should have been...hers. And Nick, as weak as he is!--DEFENDS the bitch-witch!--and asks Juliette to "please leave" at the police station. Adeline, working with the Royals, transforms into Juliette, has sex with Nick, and BOOM, he's no more a Grimm. Mission accomplished. But, Monroe and Rosealee need help and Nick wants him Grimm back and faithful stand-by-your-man Juliette agrees to go along with everything, even though Elizabeth warns there could be side effects.

Low and behold, we now have a sweetheart character, the "moral compass" of the show, transformed into an evil Hexenbiest...and no one really show Juliette any true compassion, sympathy or love. She's a problem that needs to be "fixed."

Henrietta said it best: "Nick, you can either kill her. Or you can accept Juliette in her new form and learn how to live and deal with it. After all, she completely accepted you being a Grimm."

BOOM! Spot on.

Quote:Henrietta said it best: "Nick, you can either kill her. Or you can accept Juliette in her new form and learn how to live and deal with it."

(05-19-2015, 08:52 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:

Quote:Henrietta said it best: "Nick, you can either kill her. Or you can accept Juliette in her new form and learn how to live and deal with it."

Why the hell didn't the latter happen? The entire GRIMM writing staff needs a kick up the backside for this.

(05-19-2015, 08:58 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-19-2015, 08:52 AM)Hexenadler Wrote:

Quote:Henrietta said it best: "Nick, you can either kill her. Or you can accept Juliette in her new form and learn how to live and deal with it."

Why the hell didn't the latter happen? The entire GRIMM writing staff needs a kick up the backside for this.

Im with ya, i think alot of issues people have with alot of stuff/characters in the shows circle back around to poor writing for said scene or character

which is a real shame since the show is an original idea based on old tales

i absolutely love really original tv/movies or even when someone does one based on something you already know but from a totally different angle or side

(05-19-2015, 11:44 AM)syscrash Wrote: The first proposal was not accepted by Juliette because Nick was hiding he was a Grimm. The second proposal was not accepted because Juliette was not sure she really wanted to be involved with a Grimm and all that would include. The only other times Nick never got to make the proposal because Nicks mom showed up with Adalind.

It is amazing how people sees the problem as both Nick and Juliette's fault. Even though it is only Juliette that has been put through some of the most traumatic experiences ever. That Juliette did not go insane is a testament to how strong of a will Juliette has.

(05-19-2015, 11:57 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-19-2015, 11:44 AM)syscrash Wrote: The first proposal was not accepted by Juliette because Nick was hiding he was a Grimm. The second proposal was not accepted because Juliette was not sure she really wanted to be involved with a Grimm and all that would include. The only other times Nick never got to make the proposal because Nicks mom showed up with Adalind.

It is amazing how people sees the problem as both Nick and Juliette's fault. Even though it is only Juliette that has been put through some of the most traumatic experiences ever. That Juliette did not go insane is a testament to how strong of a will Juliette has.

but the third time she did know, he just never actually got to ask cause kelly arrived but the conversation they were having he was saying i know you said 1 wedding was enough and all that so she had to know, later he even straight out tells her i was proposing to you again when my mom showed up but by that point she was most likely rightfully angry that Adalind was there

i don't disagree that Juliette has been though alot but wouldn't you agree so has nick?
he never signed up to be a grimm it just kinda hit him, he thought he was going crazy and who wouldn't, your aunt shows up dying basically, tells you all monsters are real and its your job to kill them, and even tho he seems he's got it down now he may still be struggling with it we've yet to be shown or told

(05-19-2015, 12:05 PM)syscrash Wrote:

(05-19-2015, 11:57 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:

(05-19-2015, 11:44 AM)syscrash Wrote: The first proposal was not accepted by Juliette because Nick was hiding he was a Grimm. The second proposal was not accepted because Juliette was not sure she really wanted to be involved with a Grimm and all that would include. The only other times Nick never got to make the proposal because Nicks mom showed up with Adalind.

It is amazing how people sees the problem as both Nick and Juliette's fault. Even though it is only Juliette that has been put through some of the most traumatic experiences ever. That Juliette did not go insane is a testament to how strong of a will Juliette has.

but the third time she did know, he just never actually got to ask cause kelly arrived but the conversation they were having he was saying i know you said 1 wedding was enough and all that so she had to know, later he even straight out tells her i was proposing to you again when my mom showed up but by that point she was most likely rightfully angry that Adalind was there

i don't disagree that Juliette has been though alot but wouldn't you agree so has nick?
he never signed up to be a grimm it just kinda hit him, he thought he was going crazy and who wouldn't, your aunt shows up dying basically, tells you all monsters are real and its your job to kill them, and even tho he seems he's got it down now he may still be struggling with it we've yet to be shown or told

Nick was born into the world of wesen . Nothing he could do would have prevented him from discovering the world of wesen. Juliette only connection is because of her association with Nick. It is Nick's aunt and mothers fault they did not prepare him just incase.

What has happened to Nick is because he is a Grimm. With Juliette it is only because she is involved with Nick.