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+--- Thread: Grimm view world (/Thread-Grimm-view-world)
RE: Grimm view world - bart - 07-09-2017
(07-09-2017, 07:01 AM)irukandji Wrote:(07-09-2017, 05:48 AM)bart Wrote: So people on this board who does not think Nick is corrupt must have some huge bias against law enforcement?
How would I know?
You just said it.
RE: Grimm view world - irukandji - 07-09-2017
(07-09-2017, 08:14 AM)bart Wrote:(07-09-2017, 07:01 AM)irukandji Wrote:(07-09-2017, 05:48 AM)bart Wrote: So people on this board who does not think Nick is corrupt must have some huge bias against law enforcement?
How would I know?
You just said it.
Provide the quote, please.
RE: Grimm view world - bart - 07-09-2017
(07-09-2017, 12:00 AM)irukandji Wrote: [quote='Adriano Neres Rodrigues' pid='55904' dateline='1493172041']
I stayed away from this thread while the fervor was going on about Nick being hero versus corrupt cop. As the show has long since ended and I think the forum days are coming to a close as well, Ill add my two cents to this thread.
I am one of the few, as it's been pointed out more than once in this thread, that consider Nick a corrupt cop. I actually find it strange, and I don't mean to offend anyone here, that posters took such offense at calling Nick corrupt. I am assuming that for those who took said offense, that they have absolutely no understanding of what it means to grow up in a family where the breadwinner is a law enforcement officer or to have friends who work in such an environment.
In today's view, when an officer is accused of shooting a civilian or participating in illegal schemes, the information is broadcast across the media over and over and over again. Even when officers are cleared and the public is not satisfied, it's broadcast across the media over and over and over again.
The sad thing about law enforcement is, when they do good for the community, if it's broadcast at all, it's broadcast for perhaps a day or two and certainly not across all forms of media. I suppose it's much more interesting for people, and I have no doubt there are some of that mindset who have posted on this forum, to believe that all of our law enforcement officers are bloodthirsty, vengeful, power hungry forces who take advantage of the little guy any chance they get.
The same media never focuses on what it means to be part of a law enforcement family when riots break out or when cops are individually targeted by the criminal element. The fear, the tension, all of the feelings of the family are never focused upon. They will, however, immediately focus on the sadness, the anger, the frustration of the families who have had members shot by cops. Needless to say, it's a biased portrayal.
If Nick were a gentle transvestite for 17 hours of the day, but then went out dressed as a woman and killed for the other 7, there would be an outcry in the forum, particularly from the LGBT members. The same outcries would be made if Nick were a military commander honored by the public because he's performed many heroic deeds but kills wesen under his command on the sly and had the approval of fellow commanders and subordinates for doing so. I would imagine many who served our country so honorably would be totaly torked that a television program would present such a conspiracy among many military men.
I highly doubt anyone would be silent if Nick were a revered man of the cloth who heard confessions, forgave sinners, then turned around and killed some of the very same people he forgave and was applauded by fellow men of the cloth for
RE: Grimm view world - irukandji - 07-09-2017
I don't see anything to that effect. Unless you can quote me something more specific than almost the entire post, I can only conclude you read more into this than what is actually there.
RE: Grimm view world - Hell Rell - 07-09-2017
You make valid points. Cops not getting enough notoriety when they do something good but get a lot of media coverage when they do something violent isn't exclusive to them. Negative usually outweighs the positive in terms of what gets coverage. The news usually leads with something horrible.
I'm a Black man and that is definitely true for my community. There were peaceful protests in Baltimore that hardly received any coverage. I'm certain most people weren't aware of it. It wasn't until the protests turned violent that the media coverage took off. Most wouldn't know there were previously peaceful protests being held and would get the impression that it got violent from the start.
Some posters may have taken offense at Nick being called corrupt but I think the opposite is also true. I think you took offense at Nick not being called corrupt. Your experience with law enforcement plays a part in that and I get why you would take offense. Your opinion on him being corrupt shouldn't be delegitimized just like a doctor watching House or even a medical student would have a problem with House being glorified. I know this happened because I've seen it plenty of forums.
I don't see Nick as a great hero or corrupt. I think he's done heroic and corrupt things but to label him as just one or the other would be disingenuous in my case. Being a fantasy doesn't give him a free pass because I certainly don't give Game of Thrones a free pass for all of the misogynistic writing, not setting but writing, it's had over the course of the series along with a bunch of other offensive and nonsensical things its tried to sell the public while some decide to eat all it up without giving it any critical thought whatsoever. I just think Nick had to make some hard choices about things that the people in his world weren't aware of so the suspects he was chasing couldn't be tried properly. It didn't give him the right to be judge, jury, and executioner but he also couldn't go through the normal legal process that wasn't equipped to deal with wesen.
There are wesen in Portland who have benefited from Nick's actions. I think labeling him a corrupt cop and nothing more is what people have a problem with here. Someone saying Nick has done some good things while skirting the law would probably be better received than just calling him a corrupt cop because that makes it seem like there's nothing good about him and puts him on the same level as Renard whom I'm reluctant to admit has probably done some good himself though he's more slimy.
RE: Grimm view world - irukandji - 07-09-2017
(07-09-2017, 12:44 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: I'm a Black man and that is definitely true for my community. There were peaceful protests in Baltimore that hardly received any coverage. I'm certain most people weren't aware of it. It wasn't until the protests turned violent that the media coverage took off. Most wouldn't know there were previously peaceful protests being held and would get the impression that it got violent from the start.
There is truth in this. Not long ago there was a protest against the president downtown. We happened to be heading home from there when it occurred. It almost seemed like it was going to turn violent, but there were plenty of police on hand, and it went off quite peacefully. I heard nothing about it on the news that night even though I saw crews there.
Among the stories we never hear are of the common folk who aid the police. When my father was on the force, there was a shooting and the victim was left on the sewer grate. They were called to the scene, but had to wait for an ambulance. At that time ambulances were not as speedy as today. A woman nearby offered to help, so they asked if she could provide them with some wet towels (it was an intestinal wound) until the ambulance could get there. She did. Later, the police sent her a letter thanking her for her help along with a new set of towels. I believe the victim survived, thanks to her efforts.
(07-09-2017, 12:44 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Some posters may have taken offense at Nick being called corrupt but I think the opposite is also true. I think you took offense at Nick not being called corrupt. Your experience with law enforcement plays a part in that and I get why you would take offense. Your opinion on him being corrupt shouldn't be delegitimized just like a doctor watching House or even a medical student would have a problem with House being glorified. I know this happened because I've seen it plenty of forums.
In all honesty, I do not take offense at Nick not being called corrupt. I took offense at posters who amped up the argument by going after me personally for calling him corrupt. It gets not only tiring, but frustrating to be called out for having a different opinion on the main character. I've often been asked why I'm even on the forum if I don't like the main character. I don't feel I should have to explain why I don't like the main character to anyone, nor should my dislike be used as some kind of gauge by other posters who claim to be objective when they're not.
(07-09-2017, 12:44 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: I don't see Nick as a great hero or corrupt. I think he's done heroic and corrupt things but to label him as just one or the other would be disingenuous in my case. Being a fantasy doesn't give him a free pass because I certainly don't give Game of Thrones a free pass for all of the misogynistic writing, not setting but writing, it's had over the course of the series along with a bunch of other offensive and nonsensical things its tried to sell the public while some decide to eat all it up without giving it any critical thought whatsoever. I just think Nick had to make some hard choices about things that the people in his world weren't aware of so the suspects he was chasing couldn't be tried properly. It didn't five him the right to be judge, jury, and executioner but he also couldn't go through the normal legal process that wasn't equipped to deal with wesen.
There are wesen in Portland who have benefited from Nick's actions. I think labeling him a corrupt cop and nothing more is what people have a problem with here. Someone saying Nick has done some good things while skirting the law would probably be better received than just calling him a corrupt cop because that makes it seem like there's nothing good about him and puts him on the same level as Renard whom I'm reluctant to admit has probably done some good himself though he's more slimy.
When I was reading the thread last night, one of the things Adriano asked is how do we see the way the writers used an open interpretation world view in a way that each of us are able to see the characters in different ways. I have thought for a long time now that the writers intended to show the cop side of Nick as the corrupt one. Grimm has aired during some exceptionally violent times where cops are not shown in the greatest light. I think the writers took this to heart.
I know we've drug the Kenneth argument to death, but to me, Kenneth is a good example of Nick's corruptness as a cop as well as heroics as a grimm. He had Hank and Wu illegally bring him in and then take him to a secluded area, also illegal for a cop.
The grimm part of Nick kicked in next when he proceeded to fight Kenneth, then murder him. This was revenge for Kenneth murdering his mother.
I have tried to take an objective side to see how people can look at Nick's actions as a hero. In the case of Kenneth, I can see the writers making the grimm part of Nick heroic, but at the same time the cop part of him is corrupt. I don't like that imbalance, but that's the closest I can come to understanding how Nick might be viewed as a hero.
RE: Grimm view world - Devegs - 07-09-2017
(07-09-2017, 12:44 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: You make valid points. Cops not getting enough notoriety when they do something good but get a lot of media coverage when they do something violent isn't exclusive to them. Negative usually outweighs the positive in terms of what gets coverage. The news usually leads with some thing horrible.
I'm a Black man and that is definitely true for my community. There were peaceful protests in Baltimore that hardly received any coverage. I'm certain most people weren't aware of it. It wasn't until the protests turned violent that the media coverage took off. Most wouldn't know there were previously peaceful protests being held and would get the impression that it got violent from the start.
Some posters may have taken offense at Nick being called corrupt but I think the opposite is also true. I think you took offense at Nick not being called corrupt. Your experience with law enforcement plays a part in that and I get why you would take offense. Your opinion on him being corrupt shouldn't be delegitimized just like a doctor watching House or even a medical student would have a problem with House being glorified. I know this happened because I've seen it plenty of forums.
I don't see Nick as a great hero or corrupt. I think he's done heroic and corrupt things but to label him as just one or the other would be disingenuous in my case. Being a fantasy doesn't give him a free pass because I certainly don't give Game of Thrones a free pass for all of the misogynistic writing, not setting but writing, it's had over the course of the series along with a bunch of other offensive and nonsensical things its tried to sell the public while some decide to eat all it up without giving it any critical thought whatsoever. I just think Nick had to make some hard choices about things that the people in his world weren't aware of so the suspects he was chasing couldn't be tried properly. It didn't five him the right to be judge, jury, and executioner but he also couldn't go through the normal legal process that wasn't equipped to deal with wesen.
There are wesen in Portland who have benefited from Nick's actions. I think labeling him a corrupt cop and nothing more is what people have a problem with here. Someone saying Nick has done some good things while skirting the law would probably be better received than just calling him a corrupt cop because that makes it seem like there's nothing good about him and puts him on the same level as Renard whom I'm reluctant to admit has probably done some good himself though he's more slimy.
Where's the like button for this post?
RE: Grimm view world - eric - 07-10-2017
I have had experience with both corrupt to the core cops and others trying to do the right thing day in and day out. Cops taking bribes, extorting money from people and businesses, sexually attacking victims, protecting drug rings--that's corrupt. Nick was trying to protect the good ones(wessen and human) and deal with the bad ones. I do not think letting wessen who could never be convicted based on normal human evidence to go free to kill again would be corrupt. Shady, perhaps, but not corrupt.
RE: Grimm view world - dicappatore - 07-10-2017
I don’t know whom brought up the subject of Nick being a corrupt cop in these threads. If they did? Why then bother to watch a show that ran for 6 years that has “THE” main character being a corrupted individual.
I guess the majority of us viewer’s that kept this series going for six years must love watching a TV show with corrupted cops. If Nick was such a corrupted cop, that would include Hank, Wu, and the rest of the Portland PD. Lest not forget Juliette, Monroe, Rosalee Bud, etc. would be his corrupted accomplices. See how ridiculous such a statement is?
Let me guess? Next, someone will post the Royals and Black Claw were leading the moral compass of the world in the proper direction.
RE: Grimm view world - rpmaluki - 07-10-2017
(07-10-2017, 08:58 AM)dicappatore Wrote: I don’t know whom brought up the subject of Nick being a corrupt cop in these threads. If they did? Why then bother to watch a show that ran for 6 years that has “THE” main character being a corrupted individual.I remember there were a few posts a while back that considered BC as a possible freedom fighter organization instead of a terrorist group, it didn't stick.
I guess the majority of us viewer’s that kept this series going for six years must love watching a TV show with corrupted cops. If Nick was such a corrupted cop, that would include Hank, Wu, and the rest of the Portland PD. Lest not forget Juliette, Monroe, Rosalee Bud, etc. would be his corrupted accomplices. See how ridiculous such a statement is?
Let me guess? Next, someone will post the Royals and Black Claw were leading the moral compass of the world in the proper direction.