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+--- Thread: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. (/Thread-So-Diana-doesn-t-know-Juliette-betrayed-Kelly)
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - dicappatore - 09-09-2018
(09-09-2018, 06:57 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: I feel like the "20 years later" part keeps getting ignored which is why some posts have these contradictions. Everything that happened in those two decades happened off-screen. It's safe to assume that whatever doesn't make sense to you in the current timeline makes sense after the timeskip. Diana and Adalind may have not gone on hunts during the show but they did in the epilogue. They had to have joined in at some point during those 20 years.
It was also enough time for Diana to grow closer to Nick and call him Dad. I wonder if there was this much contention when Arnold and Willis started calling Mr. Drummond Dad after about a year of living with him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - irukandji - 09-10-2018
(09-09-2018, 06:57 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: I feel like the "20 years later" part keeps getting ignored which is why some posts have these contradictions. Everything that happened in those two decades happened off-screen. It's safe to assume that whatever doesn't make sense to you in the current timeline makes sense after the timeskip. Diana and Adalind may have not gone on hunts during the show but they did in the epilogue. They had to have joined in at some point during those 20 years.
It was also enough time for Diana to grow closer to Nick and call him Dad. I wonder if there was this much contention when Arnold and Willis started calling Mr. Drummond Dad after about a year of living with him.
I'm surprised there are those here who still feel everyone should think the way they do. No one said you had to go along with the idea that Diana's relationship with Sean was of a father daughter nature and Nick could never come close to that. Yet you feel everyone must think as you do based on your safe assumptions.
There's also something that those of your outlook have never explained and that's the reason for Diana telling Kelly that Nick is coming with them. There's no reason for Nick to suddenly make a special appearance as the grimm 20 years later and certainly no reason for Diana to tell her brother the incredibly obvious. Nick would always be going out on wesen hunts with these two.
Believe what you want. But keep in mind your assumptions don't fit everything neatly into place and so the question remains. Also, using Diff'rent Strokes as such a ridiculous comparison does not lend credence to your argument.
I know the little troll who never uses spellcheck is watching and is going to add his usual comments that have nothing to do with the topic. So I predict the argument should end peacefully right here.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Hell Rell - 09-10-2018
Diana just said Mom and Dad are waiting on them. She really didn't have to tell Kelly anyone who was coming with them, including the triplets, but she did so in order to relay that info to the audience. It was exposition.
On the topic of Diff'rent Strokes as it compares to Grimm, I would actually say that it was more controversial or caused more contention when Arnold and Willis called Mr. Drummond Dad. The fact that an old white man was being called Dad by two black boys in the 80s would be seen as more confusing than Diana calling Nick Dad. Especially since they did it in much less time than Diana did.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - irukandji - 09-10-2018
(09-10-2018, 10:21 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: Diana just said Mom and Dad are waiting on them. She really didn't have to tell Kelly anyone who was coming with them, including the triplets, but she did so in order to relay that info to the audience. It was exposition.
I'm not disagreeing with that nor your right to your opinion that "Dad" is Nick. That's your right. But you haven't supplied anything to support that Diana formed a close bond with Nick other than an assumption. It's just as easy to say Diana was talking about Sean coming with them. After all, an assumption is an assumption. Diana was very close to Sean and was not with Nick. In my opinion, Sean is the only one who's going to be her "Dad".
(09-10-2018, 10:21 AM)Hell Rell Wrote: On the topic of Diff'rent Strokes as it compares to Grimm, I would actually say that it was more controversial or caused more contention when Arnold and Willis called Mr. Drummond Dad. The fact that an old white man was being called Dad by two black boys in the 80s would be seen as more confusing than Diana calling Nick Dad. Especially since they did it in much less time than Diana did.
There is a huge difference here. Diana's real mother and dad are characters in the show. From what I remember of Diff'rent Strokes that never happened. They went to live with Drummond and the story continued from there. To me the comparison doesn't really merit.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Hell Rell - 09-10-2018
Diana didn't even seem to care that her parents died. She was more focused on the Grimms that came to help Nick and Trubel fight Zerstorer but I won't use that as evidence that she didn't care about them and cared more about Nick.
Besides, Diana wasn't at the point of calling Nick Dad in the current timeline but she was warming up to him more and more in the last few episodes even if it was just for Adalind's sake. Her attitude towards him was definitely different than it was in the beginning of season 6 when she clearly had a disgust for him not being her father.
As for who was mentioned in the epilogue, not even Monroe and Rosalee were mentioned and it's well-known they were fan-favorites. They were the last ones to die for a reason. I highly doubt Renard would be mentioned over them.
I brought up exposition because Kelly didn't seem surprised by Diana telling him who was waiting for them. That was for our benefit because he obviously already knew. Diana didn't have to mention anyone but we would've assumed nobody else was joining them. In that case, it would be a safe assumption because it's perfectly believable that Diana and Kelly wouldn't really need anyone's help. I say this in response to you saying why Diana had to tell Kelly that Nick was coming.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - irukandji - 09-11-2018
(09-10-2018, 01:34 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: As for who was mentioned in the epilogue, not even Monroe and Rosalee were mentioned and it's well-known they were fan-favorites. They were the last ones to die for a reason. I highly doubt Renard would be mentioned over them.
No one was mentioned with any specificity, other than Adalind. But why would you think that Renard couldn't be a person to come along on this expedition? He was the one who put Nick on the wesen task force to begin with. In my opinion, it's more preposterous that Adalind would even be included on any of this to begin with. No one has questioned why she'd be along. Yet everyone has issues with Renard, who knew about the problem well before Nick ever put his grimm toe into the precinct.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Henry of green - 09-11-2018
(09-10-2018, 01:34 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Diana didn't even seem to care that her parents died. She was more focused on the Grimms that came to help Nick and Trubel fight Zerstorer but I won't use that as evidence that she didn't care about them and cared more about Nick.
Besides, Diana wasn't at the point of calling Nick Dad in the current timeline but she was warming up to him more and more in the last few episodes even if it was just for Adalind's sake. Her attitude towards him was definitely different than it was in the beginning of season 6 when she clearly had a disgust for him not being her father.
As for who was mentioned in the epilogue, not even Monroe and Rosalee were mentioned and it's well-known they were fan-favorites. They were the last ones to die for a reason. I highly doubt Renard would be mentioned over them.
I brought up exposition because Kelly didn't seem surprised by Diana telling him who was waiting for them. That was for our benefit because he obviously already knew. Diana didn't have to mention anyone but we would've assumed nobody else was joining them. In that case, it would be a safe assumption because it's perfectly believable that Diana and Kelly wouldn't really need anyone's help. I say this in response to you saying why Diana had to tell Kelly that Nick was coming.
Diania was cleary warming up to Nick infact besides her perants Nicks is the only other person Diania allowed to hug her and she also was determined to get Nick back through the mirror again.
Also the epilogue was cleary about Nicks family and his legacy it had absolutely nothing to do with Renard, infact Kelly mentions Nicks name several times in the epilogue stating about how Nick was the one who told him about being a Grimm and about his epic figth that saved the world form being turned into the other side. On the other hand we hear nothing about Renard to suggest he had spent anytime whatsoever with Kelly or had any influence in his upbringing.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - irukandji - 09-11-2018
(09-11-2018, 04:15 AM)Henry of green Wrote:(09-10-2018, 01:34 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Diana didn't even seem to care that her parents died. She was more focused on the Grimms that came to help Nick and Trubel fight Zerstorer but I won't use that as evidence that she didn't care about them and cared more about Nick.
Besides, Diana wasn't at the point of calling Nick Dad in the current timeline but she was warming up to him more and more in the last few episodes even if it was just for Adalind's sake. Her attitude towards him was definitely different than it was in the beginning of season 6 when she clearly had a disgust for him not being her father.
As for who was mentioned in the epilogue, not even Monroe and Rosalee were mentioned and it's well-known they were fan-favorites. They were the last ones to die for a reason. I highly doubt Renard would be mentioned over them.
I brought up exposition because Kelly didn't seem surprised by Diana telling him who was waiting for them. That was for our benefit because he obviously already knew. Diana didn't have to mention anyone but we would've assumed nobody else was joining them. In that case, it would be a safe assumption because it's perfectly believable that Diana and Kelly wouldn't really need anyone's help. I say this in response to you saying why Diana had to tell Kelly that Nick was coming.
Diania was cleary warming up to Nick infact besides her perants Nicks is the only other person Diania allowed to hug her and she also was determined to get Nick back through the mirror again.
Also the epilogue was cleary about Nicks family and his legacy it had absolutely nothing to do with Renard, infact Kelly mentions Nicks name several times in the epilogue stating about how Nick was the one who told him about being a Grimm and about his epic figth that saved the world form being turned into the other side. On the other hand we hear nothing about Renard to suggest he had spent anytime whatsoever with Kelly or had any influence in his upbringing.
Hogwash. There's no indication Diana was warming up to Nick, certainly not as her replacement father. She brought Nick back for Adalind because it made her mother happy.
I'm not saying Diana hated Nick because I don't see that. But it was apparent from the fact that the show put her with Sean that Sean was her father and no one was going to take his place.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - Robyn - 09-11-2018
I think Diana’s non-reaction to her parents’ brutal slaughtering and her ‘other mommy’ suddenly returning is worth noting, if for no reason other than it demonstrated the writers’ lack of interest in establishing her as an independent three dimensional character even when she became a pivotal part of the storyline in S5. Diana was always a prop pulled off the shelf for a specific use then returned to storage.
There’s little rhyme or reason for Diana allowing herself to be trotted off by any passerby who happened along before suddenly becoming a homicidal activist for the picturesque family - other than that’s the behavior writers required of her at a specific time, just as bringing up her never before mentioned bond with Kelly Burkhardt was really only about showcasing Juliette’s guilt.
So for me, Diana despising or loving Nick at one time or another doesn’t hold any real value when analyzing the story’s finale scene. Diana’s ‘Dad’ reference wasn’t about her anymore than anything else she did or said was dedicated to her independent evolution other than establishing her as a dedicated member of Team Grimm in the future.
It makes sense that Diana was speaking of Nick, not because it makes sense from the supporting character’s point of view but because throughout the show the lives of all the supporting characters were interconnected with the Grimm / the hero / the central character. Adalind was referenced in the finale scene because she was with Nick, not because the show set her on a path to become an active defender against evil Wesen.
I agree with you, irukandji, that Diana’s storyline - limited as it was - supports that she wouldn’t refer to any man other than Renard as Dad. But as I’ve said, I don’t believe the writers developed supporting characters with independent evolution. Renard wouldn’t be referenced in the finale scene, even by Diana, while omitting reference to the Grimm / the hero / the central character.
Anyone watching the show, or even the last three episodes, knew Zerstörer was Nick’s most fierce foe capable of worldwide devastation who was defeated by four Grimm from the Kessler bloodline. Viewers didn’t need Kelly, jr. recapping events in the finale scene. Kelly, jr. writing in the Grimm diary established the Greenwalt and Kouf version of Nick’s happy future and his son carrying on the Kessler family tradition. It wasn’t meant to demote Renard’s role in Diana’s life because it wasn’t about their personal father/daughter relationship. It was about Nick, the Grimm / the hero / the central character and his continuing story.
Not my personal preference for a series, but it is the typical format of action-hero shows.
RE: So Diana doesn't know Juliette betrayed Kelly. - brandon - 09-11-2018
Monroe also helped Nick in case " Wesen".I think he did not do it with the others person.
1) The "Wesen "were not interested in help the police human.
2)Just as they did not get into his life
just as he did not get into his life of other " Wesen".