+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will (/Thread-Just-a-general-question-on-Prophecy-VS-free-will)
Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - jsgrimm45 - 02-18-2017
Can you have both prophecy and free will? Would appear if you have free will then prophecy may or may not work out.
So can the two be combined?
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - brandon - 02-18-2017
There is an interesting movie "Willow",Whose witch learns that a girl will destroy her.She does everything to destroy a baby that comes to a village of dwarfs.The witch is destroyed by Willow, the daughter of the witch and an army
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - jsgrimm45 - 02-18-2017
(02-18-2017, 07:16 AM)brandon Wrote: There is an interesting movie "Willow",Whose witch learns that a girl will destroy her.She does everything to destroy a baby that comes to a village of dwarfs.The witch is destroyed by Willow, the daughter of the witch and an armyI seen that movie was a good movie, had a good mix of magic and humor.
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - Kwu9888 - 02-18-2017
In my beliefs there really is no free will everything that happens is already predestined if you will no matter what you decide or how you try to change your life it is what it has always been predestined to be. With good karma you can change your life for the better but it has always been planned that way. It is what it is.
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - jsgrimm45 - 02-18-2017
(02-18-2017, 07:33 AM)Kwu9888 Wrote: In my beliefs there really is no free will everything that happens is already predestined if you will no matter what you decide or how you try to change your life it is what it has always been predestined to be. With good karma you can change your life for the better but it has always been planned that way. It is what it is.We agree on some of this, I think your how and when of you death is written, but that being said I have kind of a christian mixed with a Buddhist tilt, I believe you can be reincarnated if you wish to be, but not in karma.
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - speakeasy - 02-18-2017
Could be that prophecies are destined to play out. But the beholder would have to know the prophecy ahead of time to judge that. But the good news is that there could be surrounding choices that could impact a prophecy so that it could come to pass without a necessarily dreadful outcome.
Or we could be dealing with a portent instead of prophecy. It could be that the stick and cloth are sending a message of possible events which could be catastrophic or victorious, depending on the response. We can't really surrender our lives to any kind of predestination without trying to work our own influence on things; that would be so discouraging, imo.
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - wfmyers1207 - 02-18-2017
This is why I don't believe that prophecy is a "written in stone" kind of thing. If you read the Bible for example the prophets send warnings. The "prophecies" are seldom absolutes. It tends to be more along the lines of a "Repent or else!" kind of deal.
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - speakeasy - 02-18-2017
(02-18-2017, 08:25 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: This is why I don't believe that prophecy is a "written in stone" kind of thing. If you read the Bible for example the prophets send warnings. The "prophecies" are seldom absolutes. It tends to be more along the lines of a "Repent or else!" kind of deal.
Likely most prophecies are vague enough to interpret one way or another for those involved, turning on their actions. You pays your money and you takes your choice kinda deal.
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 02-18-2017
(02-18-2017, 08:25 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: This is why I don't believe that prophecy is a "written in stone" kind of thing. If you read the Bible for example the prophets send warnings. The "prophecies" are seldom absolutes. It tends to be more along the lines of a "Repent or else!" kind of deal.
I believe you hit the target.... I don't see prophecies as writing the future. I see prophecies as warnings. This way every prophecy will be an opportunity to change the way things are going to happen.
But I like to mix different theories to see things in different ways. I would like to propose a crazy theory that I will try explain. It is based in some concepts of physics.
It is clear for everyone that in this moment we have freewill to choose what we are going to do. But we can’t change our past anymore. Right? Tomorrow this moment of today will be past so the choices I did today using my freewill will be for ever and I will have no way to change those choices. Right?
What if time is not a continuous flow? What if time is a block that exists at once (past, present and future) and we are just traveling in this block just seeing the choices we have already done in some moment? Like a record movie that we have the right to watch just once?
I mean that in one moment we had the freewill to make our choices but someone has the power to go the future and see the choices we will make and just tell us in advance (as a prophecy). The point here (the hardest thing to understand) is our concept about the time. We see the time as something that is being created now. My point is that the time was already created and everything with all choices had already happened.
NOTE: Just for the records, I don't believe in modern prophecies... My ansewer was more about the concept, the theory.
RE: Just a general question on Prophecy VS free will - irukandji - 02-19-2017
(02-18-2017, 08:49 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: I mean that in one moment we had the freewill to make our choices but someone has the power to go the future and see the choices we will make and just tell us in advance (as a prophecy). The point here (the hardest thing to understand) is our concept about the time. We see the time as something that is being created now. My point is that the time was already created and everything with all choices had already happened.
It's a very interesting question. I wanted to add something here by talking about a 20th century occurrence regarding prophecies.
I watched a program not real long ago about the Fatima prophecies. You probably know about these, Adriano. The story involves three children who were visited by the Virgin Mary in 1917, who told them three secrets. The first was that hell really exists and sinners go there. The second was that WW1 would soon end to be followed by an even greater war if people didn't cease offending God. The third prophecy was not to be revealed until 1960, but was not officially revealed until 2000. According to the prophecy, the Pope was supposed to be killed by a group of soldiers. While the Pope was attacked, he was not killed.
Going back to 1960 for a moment, Paul John XXIII supposedly read the prophecy and would not release it, stating it did not apply to him. What some believe is that the prophecy revealed the Church would be betrayed by the Pope and as a result, would completely fall apart. It is thought that the Pope chose not to reveal this to the public because he felt Catholics would run amok or go insane or kill themselves over the news. There is controversy and skepticism because Catholics feel the prophecy has been altered or it has not been revealed at all.
The program I watched indicated that the last surviving child was approached and asked to document her memories of the event. She was quite elderly when she was approached, but wrote what amounted to a half a page of information. Yet when the church finally revealed the prophecy in 2000, there were several pages of information communicated.
The Church has stated that Catholics are not required to believe in the events at Fatima as they are not Church doctrine.
Here are prophecies that are religious in nature, but the head of the Church states followers do not have to believe in them. I wanted to bring this up because I wondered what your thoughts are on something like this.
For instance, these children say the Virgin Mary foretold these events. So, using your post as a yardstick, Mary has seen the future and returned to 1917. She was not stating a prophecy, but instead was issuing a warning based on what she saw the future. So who then made this into a prophecy?
This thing could go so many ways. I thought it would be interesting to discuss, but I have to admit, I have no idea how to even begin on this one!