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+---- Thread: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? (/Thread-Grimm-Is-Nick-Going-to-End-Up-Alone)
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - irukandji - 12-01-2018
(12-01-2018, 04:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote:(12-01-2018, 03:45 PM)irukandji Wrote: Let me ask this instead before responding to your question. What is Z, in your opinion? To clarify, is he human? Immortal? Grimm? Hexenbiest/Zauerbiest? Wesen? Angel of God? Something else entirely?
Z is the devil or something similar. He was trapped in hell, needed a Grimm and the whole staff to get out and literally create hell on earth, and now he’s dead or at least still trapped somewhere.
You asked if I was implying that Nick came back through Z. To this, I reply, no way. He came back through a mirror, just like he did the first time.
I tend to think that Z is not a creature of the earth. As such, I think his body can be killed, but his essence will go on unless there's some way to kill the essence. Z showed he had power without the benefit of the completed staff. I don't think it's such a stretch to think he could construct a vortex which leads to his netherworld.
Quote:You claim Nick did something at this point to stop Z from getting the staff back? What did he do?
The only thing I saw was what we all saw, which was Nick desperately trying to maintain a hold of the staff. I assumed he did something to ensure he got back to the point in time where everyone was alive and well because in the end, everyone was alive and well. As to what Nick did in the time he went through the vortex until he came back through the mirror, it's anyone's guess.
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-01-2018
Based on the drawing in Monroe's wesen family bible Z apparently either came from this side of the barrier or spent time here (because how likely is it that anyone who got sent to the other side ever returned to tell about it?), and was potentially the inspiration for any number of human myths about devils or demons, but what he actually was was never explained. It's possible that he was just Grimm's equivalent of Gollum, an ordinary wesen who came into possession of "the one staff."
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - N_grimm - 12-01-2018
(12-01-2018, 04:26 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-01-2018, 04:01 PM)N_grimm Wrote:(12-01-2018, 03:45 PM)irukandji Wrote: Let me ask this instead before responding to your question. What is Z, in your opinion? To clarify, is he human? Immortal? Grimm? Hexenbiest/Zauerbiest? Wesen? Angel of God? Something else entirely?
Z is the devil or something similar. He was trapped in hell, needed a Grimm and the whole staff to get out and literally create hell on earth, and now he’s dead or at least still trapped somewhere.
You asked if I was implying that Nick came back through Z. To this, I reply, no way. He came back through a mirror, just like he did the first time.
I tend to think that Z is not a creature of the earth. As such, I think his body can be killed, but his essence will go on unless there's some way to kill the essence. Z showed he had power without the benefit of the completed staff. I don't think it's such a stretch to think he could construct a vortex which leads to his netherworld.
Quote:You claim Nick did something at this point to stop Z from getting the staff back? What did he do?
The only thing I saw was what we all saw, which was Nick desperately trying to maintain a hold of the staff. I assumed he did something to ensure he got back to the point in time where everyone was alive and well because in the end, everyone was alive and well. As to what Nick did in the time he went through the vortex until he came back through the mirror, it's anyone's guess.
We all agree that Nick came through the mirror on the "other side", but he was sucked into a vortex and if that was Z, as I think you are saying, then he entered the time tunnel through Z ..(which I don’t believe). You think Nick did something inside the vortex. I interpreted this as just a tunnel from one dimension to another, and that Z died when Nick stabbed him with the staff. I think Nick came true the mirror the second he disappeared into the vortex. There was a lot of strange things going on in that episode, I think we at least can agree about that.
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - irukandji - 12-01-2018
(12-01-2018, 05:08 PM)N_grimm Wrote: We all agree that Nick came through the mirror on the "other side", but he was sucked into a vortex and if that was Z, as I think you are saying, then he entered the time tunnel through Z ..(which I don’t believe). You think Nick did something inside the vortex. I interpreted this as just a tunnel from one dimension to another, and that Z died when Nick stabbed him with the staff. I think Nick came true the mirror the second he disappeared into the vortex. There was a lot of strange things going on in that episode, I think we at least can agree about that.
No, I'm not saying the vortex is Z. The vortex was created from the remains of the body Z initially took or created, if you believe he could do such a thing. There seemed to be some kind of spirit coming out of Z's mouth when the body died. I am talking about the spirit using the physical remains of Z to create a vortex.
There was no dimension to go to, so the explanation of a vortex for that reason makes no sense.
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - N_grimm - 12-01-2018
(12-01-2018, 05:20 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-01-2018, 05:08 PM)N_grimm Wrote: We all agree that Nick came through the mirror on the "other side", but he was sucked into a vortex and if that was Z, as I think you are saying, then he entered the time tunnel through Z ..(which I don’t believe). You think Nick did something inside the vortex. I interpreted this as just a tunnel from one dimension to another, and that Z died when Nick stabbed him with the staff. I think Nick came true the mirror the second he disappeared into the vortex. There was a lot of strange things going on in that episode, I think we at least can agree about that.
No, I'm not saying the vortex is Z. The vortex was created from the remains of the body Z initially took or created, if you believe he could do such a thing. There seemed to be some kind of spirit coming out of Z's mouth when the body died. I am talking about the spirit using the physical remains of Z to create a vortex.
There was no dimension to go to, so the explanation of a vortex for that reason makes no sense.
It was a reset of time. I'm taking about the dimension of time...... Time is described as a dimension in physics. Nick was sucked into a vortex and came out of a mirror. How can that not make sense?
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - irukandji - 12-01-2018
(12-01-2018, 05:35 PM)N_grimm Wrote:(12-01-2018, 05:20 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-01-2018, 05:08 PM)N_grimm Wrote: We all agree that Nick came through the mirror on the "other side", but he was sucked into a vortex and if that was Z, as I think you are saying, then he entered the time tunnel through Z ..(which I don’t believe). You think Nick did something inside the vortex. I interpreted this as just a tunnel from one dimension to another, and that Z died when Nick stabbed him with the staff. I think Nick came true the mirror the second he disappeared into the vortex. There was a lot of strange things going on in that episode, I think we at least can agree about that.
No, I'm not saying the vortex is Z. The vortex was created from the remains of the body Z initially took or created, if you believe he could do such a thing. There seemed to be some kind of spirit coming out of Z's mouth when the body died. I am talking about the spirit using the physical remains of Z to create a vortex.
There was no dimension to go to, so the explanation of a vortex for that reason makes no sense.
It was a reset of time. I'm taking about the dimension of time...... Time is described as a dimension in physics. Nick was sucked into a vortex and came out of a mirror. How can that not make sense?
It would, to you because you think the reset of time occurred immediately. It doesn't to me because I'm not sure what happened once Nick went into the vortex.
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-01-2018
We should probably assume that none of the usual theoretical "rules" of science fiction time travel apply to Grimm, because the series takes place in a universe where magic is real. Maybe all Nick really had to do once he became the owner of the staff was wish that everybody Z killed had never died.
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - N_grimm - 12-01-2018
(12-01-2018, 05:46 PM)irukandji Wrote: It would, to you because you think the reset of time occurred immediately. It doesn't to me because I'm not sure what happened once Nick went into the vortex.
So your theory is that Nick has been on new adventures (inside a vortex) that were never shown or discussed. No wonder he was confused! Perhaps they should cover those adventures in the spin-off. (I'm just joking).
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - Hell Rell - 12-01-2018
(12-01-2018, 03:39 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-01-2018, 03:36 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Nick became it's owner and did what Nick wanted at the end of the day but it wasn't something he consciously ordered it to do. The way you describe him having control is akin to him saying or thinking about what he wants it to do and it doing exactly what he wants.
It wasn't subconscious. If it was, the audience would have no idea what Nick wanted the staff to do. For that matter, not even Nick would know what he wanted the staff to do.
Why would we have no idea? That's what context is for in the first place. Everything doesn't need to be spelled out or stated outright. That would only make the story weaker. I'm sure "the tell and not show" style of writing is still heavily criticized. They showed us because that was better than telling. Doing so would've eliminated any trace of nuance. We saw how happy Nick was with the results which is how we can easily draw the conclusion that he desired this even though he was resisting going through the vortex.
Even a show as simple as Grimm has a bunch of context. That's how we're able to draw these types of conclusions without being spoonfed.
Besides, one of the reasons Juliette becoming Eve is heavily criticized is due to a lack of context. We were told about her becoming Eve by her saying "they did what they had to do" without ever really showing us how that was possible.
RE: Grimm: Is Nick Going to End Up Alone? - FaceInTheCrowd - 12-01-2018
It would have been just as bad if not worse if we had actually seen the process of creating Eve. There would have been people arguing over whether a particular technique or drug could actually do what it was shown doing.