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+--- Thread: Nick (/Thread-Nick--2315)
RE: Nick - irukandji - 02-26-2016
(02-26-2016, 09:44 AM)New Guy Wrote: I did not say any such thing. The script is what Monroe and Nick said. Their conversation takes place well after the switched persona "sleeping" took place. There has been nothing to indicate when Adalind transformed into a fake Juliette that Nick had any clue. Yet, Trubel smelled the rat and saw Adalind revert to herself. Just another example of the writers making a fool of Nick.
New Guy
Then what I see is still a very tactless remark on the part of Monroe. He's equalizing the two scenarios when they were by no means equal. What he's saying is Nick *consciously* slept with Adalind when she was Juliette. He's also saying Nick *consciously* slept with Juliette when she was Adalind.
You are correct about the writers making a fool out of Nick. He doesn't get to deal with the rape at all. Instead, Monroe trivializes it. I think the rape would have made a great storyline for Grimm.
RE: Nick - tscchope - 02-26-2016
(02-26-2016, 09:48 AM)irukandji Wrote: What he's saying is Nick *consciously* slept with Adalind when she was Juliette. He's also saying Nick *consciously* slept with Juliette when she was Adalind.I think the idea was that Nick didn't consciously sleep with Adalind pretending to be Juliette, but did sleep consciously with Juliette pretending to be Adalind. Monroe isn't trivializing anything. He's not equating one with the other. He's simply saying that Nick slept with both when each was the other and that has to complicate his feelings towards both women.
When Juliette and Nick were in the car en route to Monroe and Rosalee's wedding, Nick worked out since it wasn't Juliette, it was Adalind. Juliette was a lot more upset by it than Nick. Stoical reserve doesn't begin to come into Nick's reaction. He seemed to be just fine with it.
So, no rape there.
RE: Nick - syscrash - 02-26-2016
The conversation was another confirmation that the character do not in any way shape of form consider it rape. As two guys, it is a high five moment. Monroe pictures and Nick accepts it as fulling some porno fantasy.
Someone made a comment that he has not sleep with Adalind. He knows how she performs in bed, she was truly not acting as Juliette. How would she even know how Juliette would act. She could only do what she does. Then he got to be with her body. He has just not had the two together. But don't you think that roof conversation now has him wondering. She did rock his world.
Just like Juliette sleep with Sean to prove it was over with Nick. Nick will sleep with Adalind to prove to him self and Adalind he is over Eve. But like the kiss it will not be the same as when Adalind was Juliette.
We have seen hexenette use sex as a weapon and then a tool. Will she use it on Nick. Will she pull a Henriette on him to get him to do something. Eve will see Adalind as a distraction keeping Nick from focusing on the missions. What length will she go to get and keep him focused on the fight. She will bring back the "Go get 'em, Grimm" attitude.
RE: Nick - irukandji - 02-26-2016
(02-26-2016, 01:59 PM)tscchope Wrote: I think the idea was that Nick didn't consciously sleep with Adalind pretending to be Juliette, but did sleep consciously with Juliette pretending to be Adalind. Monroe isn't trivializing anything. He's not equating one with the other. He's simply saying that Nick slept with both when each was the other and that has to complicate his feelings towards both women.
When Juliette and Nick were in the car en route to Monroe and Rosalee's wedding, Nick worked out since it wasn't Juliette, it was Adalind. Juliette was a lot more upset by it than Nick. Stoical reserve doesn't begin to come into Nick's reaction. He seemed to be just fine with it.
So, no rape there.
I don't think Nick was so comfortable with Monroe's tactlessness. To me, he seemed decidedly uncomfortable. He was raped. Instead of the creative team trying to whitewash it in a so called 'guy moment', they should have let Nick deal with it.
RE: Nick - tscchope - 02-26-2016
(02-26-2016, 02:41 PM)irukandji Wrote: I don't think Nick was so comfortable with Monroe's tactlessness. To me, he seemed decidedly uncomfortable... Instead of the creative team trying to whitewash it in a so called 'guy moment', they should have let Nick deal with it.
Nick was unsettled by Monroe's comment. Monroe is pointing out to Nick that he's in a very complicated love triangle. Recognizing that uncomfortable fact is the first stage to Nick understanding his emotional state and dealing with it.
RE: Nick - irukandji - 02-26-2016
(02-26-2016, 02:49 PM)tscchope Wrote: Nick was unsettled by Monroe's comment. Monroe is pointing out to Nick that he's in a very complicated love triangle. Recognizing that uncomfortable fact is the first stage to Nick understanding his emotional state and dealing with it.
He's unsettled by Monroe's comment all right, but it's not because of a love triangle.
RE: Nick - tscchope - 02-26-2016
(02-26-2016, 02:50 PM)irukandji Wrote: He's unsettled ... but it's not because of a love triangle.The objects are Adalind and Juliette. And Nick's relationship with both is the subject matter. That's a love triangle.
RE: Nick - irukandji - 02-26-2016
(02-26-2016, 03:04 PM)tscchope Wrote:(02-26-2016, 02:50 PM)irukandji Wrote: He's unsettled ... but it's not because of a love triangle.The objects are Adalind and Juliette. And Nick's relationship with both is the subject matter. That's a love triangle.
I disagree. Adalind did not go to Nick out of love. Nick did not invite her out of love. She disguised herself and slept with him. If he'd have known it was her, he wouldn't have slept with her. It was done without his consent. That makes it rape, not a love triangle.
RE: Nick - Hexenadler - 02-26-2016
(02-26-2016, 03:08 PM)irukandji Wrote: I disagree. Adalind did not go to Nick out of love. Nick did not invite her out of love. She disguised herself and slept with him. If he'd have known it was her, he wouldn't have slept with her. It was done without his consent. That makes it rape, not a love triangle.
Be careful, you could earn the ire of a bratty lurker talking like that.
Trust me, I'm speaking from personal experience.
RE: Nick - Robyn - 02-26-2016
Nick never expressed any reaction/emotion that conveyed he felt raped. Tricked. Yes. Raped No. What Nick did demonstratively express was his delight of the best sexual pleasure he and Juliette had ever experienced.
Only problem was, he shared his joy minutes before Juliette informed him it wasn’t her. Nick couldn’t unshare what he’d just shared with Juliette. So they’d have to live with it and pretend he never had that reaction to sex with Adalind while disguised as Juliette.
Nick was upset & angry because he’d hurt & embarrassed Juliette, and because he lost his Grimm.
But if we decide to disregard Nick’s reaction and insist that it be properly labeled as rape, then we should explore the cause of the rape and similar unsavory behavior.
Kelly, Renard, Nick, and the gang conspired & kidnapped Adalind’s baby, then lied to her that Viktor had her baby. Viktor used the Portland gang’s deceit to his advantage making Adalind believe if she took Nick’s Grimm he would allow her to return to the castle & live with her child.
What parent would opt to give up their child for the sake of not harming one of the people that kidnapped their child? Nick & Adalind had been enemies since the day Renard pitted them against each other. Nick didn’t give a damn about Adalind’s emotional breakdown over losing her baby; why should Adalind give a damn about Nick losing his Grimm?
If Adalind raped Nick by deception, then Nick murdered Adalind’s hexenbiest by deception. Nick goaded Adalind into a fight with preconceived intentions of getting her to ingest his blood which would kill her hexenbiest - an innate part of her. Nick killed Adalind’s hexenbiest to save Hank’s life. Adalind took Nick’s Grimm to get her child back. Both used deceit to save persons important to them. One act is no more or no less criminal than the other.
The Rooftop Conversation:
On it’s face, the conversation was tactless, vulgar even. But when we remove ourselves as viewers from the exchange, it becomes a private conversation that is brutally frank between two people that trust one another to keep the conversation private.
I took Monroe’s comment about Nick sleeping with both women while each other as being more about the impact it had on Nick & Adalind’s arrangement/relationship/feelings. It’s how/why their son was conceived, and in order for their arrangement/relationship/feelings to move forward, they have to get past it.
I didn’t see Nick as uncomfortable about the Nick/Adalind/Juliette sex as he was about Monroe questioning his & Adalind’s feeling about one another. Nick said he didn’t know how Adalind felt about him because they didn’t talk about it. But they did. At his prompting. Nick shared a rather intimate secret with Adalind - he chose being a Grimm over a normal life with Juliette & she agreed to it. And then he gave Adalind a big neon green light that he was ready for them to explore their feelings. But Adalind wasn’t interested in exploring anything beyond their brief, closed-mouth kiss, and closed the door on any future exploration until some undisclosed date when they’re both sure it’s about them & what they really want from their arrangement/relationship.
Nick tried again while they were discussing the murders/rain ritual, but again, Adalind shut him down. Nick gave it his best boy next door charm and Adalind walked away, ignoring he’d put it out there.
Nick told Monroe he didn’t know how he was supposed to feel about Adalind, he’d hated her for so long. They were living together & had a kid, it was both strange & normal.
But Nick does know how he feels about Adalind, or maybe more precise, he knows how he’d feel if he allowed himself to. And I think that’s what most of Nick’s guilt, especially where Juliette’s concerned, stems from. His & Adalind’s husband/wife-father/mother household might feel strange, but it also feels normal to him, and he’s enjoying it & feeling more relaxed about it day by day.
But he’s not completely ready to admit it to himself, and not anywhere near ready admitting it to Monroe or anyone else. So he evades just enough to get by.
For me, the one thing blaringly missing from the conversation was any follow up to Nick’s comment - Who would have believed Adalind would be such a good mother?
Do any of them give a damn that Adalind’s other child is with the Royals - or does only Nick’s child matter? Do any of them question that Adalind would have been an equally wonderful mother to her daughter had they not kidnapped her? Do any of them question that Adalind would have likely never returned to Portland and none of the S4 disaster would have occurred if Kelly Burkhardt had followed orders instead of rerouting the plane to Portland?
Until a frank discussion takes place about Diana’s kidnapping & how it went down, for me, any possible Nick/Adalind relationship will be far more tainted by Nick’s actions than from Adalind raping Nick in hopes of getting her child back.