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+--- Thread: Nick (/Thread-Nick--2315)
RE: Nick - rpmaluki - 10-14-2017
(10-14-2017, 07:55 PM)silver Wrote:Eve was talking to Rosalee at the spice shop about Adalind’s rusty powers and why she couldn't sense her and Monroe in the tunnels.(10-14-2017, 07:45 PM)irukandji Wrote:(10-14-2017, 05:01 PM)silver Wrote: If you're saying that J said 'anyone else?' because of how many people were there, I'd disagree and say she said that because she sensed Adalind was there - why else would she ask earlier about testing it on a Fuchsbau etc.? She KNEW Adalind had something to do with it, but they weren't coming clean (because of their fear J might hurt or kill A). fwiw...
She didn't ask earlier about testing it on a Fuchsbau. She asked about that later on. So yes, I believe Juliette was commenting on the show of people in the spice shop and Rosalee was embarrassed by the show of people in the spice shop.
I got the chronology wrong, but I'm not seeing or understanding why Rosalee would be embarrassed by the show of people in the spice shop...I think it's more of a very strong worry about what J might do, if she finds Adalind there.
(10-14-2017, 06:22 PM)Devegs Wrote:(10-14-2017, 05:01 PM)silver Wrote: She KNEW Adalind had something to do with it, but they weren't coming clean (because of their fear J might hurt or kill A). fwiw...
I agree. Juliette knew that Adalind would have been involved in the making of the potion. For the gang to state with conviction that they had a potion and it worked would mean that they had tested the potion on a hexenbiest. Also how would they have had known of this potion when previously they had no answers? Who else again but Adalind.
The gang wouldn't want to reveal that of course. Firstly, there had been bad blood between Juliette (/Nick/scoobies) and Adalind due to Adalind's cat scratch/coma & her other shenanigans against the gang. Then add the fact that Adalind was pregnant with Nick's child after transforming herself to Juliette. Then throw in the confrontation Juliette had just had at the precinct with Adalind where Juliette was already angry at Nick because he was looking out for his unborn child. There she accused him of taking Adalind's side, and had threatened Adalind and child. Now with all that why would the group want to say to her, 'oh by the way Adalind helped with the potion, go ahead and drink!'
I'm harkening back to when J visited A in the fome, and M and R are still in the tunnel; later J (I guess I mean E) told someone (forget who) that A didn't sense M and R in the tunnel because she's rusty since she got her H back, but she won't be for long. That's why she kept asking/pushing for 'gee, who did they test it on, if they're sure it works.'
The group are people who love her and want more than anything to help her get some sort of relief. They had no clue as to what to expect from E. And (actually, not E - yet!) they certainly weren't expecting what transpired when J's vengeful hexenbiest nature blossomed full force.
She worked out Adalind was involved cooking up the potion. Juliette at full powers could sense Adalind's presence, she asked if there was anyone else at the spice shop to see whether they would be truthful. They weren't, she acted accordingly by refusing to take the potion what followed after was unnecessary violence since they weren't attacking her.
RE: Nick - silver - 10-14-2017
(10-14-2017, 08:06 PM)irukandji Wrote:(10-14-2017, 07:55 PM)silver Wrote: I got the chronology wrong, but I'm not seeing or understanding why Rosalee would be embarrassed by the show of people in the spice shop...I think it's more of a very strong worry about what J might do, if she finds Adalind there.
Rosalee was the one who opened it up stating "Juliette, we all know this is-it's a little bit awkward, but, really, it's for the right reason."
I interpret that to mean she was embarrassed at the number of people who had to be present for Juliette to take this little jar of potion.
It's possible, but I see no reason for her to be embarrassed because I think everybody was there for support of one another - just super-worried about J causing a rumble - which she did big time! I think they (she - Rosalee) felt contrite because of everybody who was involved in changing J's life - even though it wasn't anything that could have been foreseen.
RE: Nick - irukandji - 10-14-2017
(10-14-2017, 03:13 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: I said they didn't have suppression darts because even that would've been an act of aggression even though it's non-lethal. They didn't draw their guns until after Monroe was tossed aside which was after Rosalee was thrown across the room which was after she shook the Spice Shop. And all that happened after she threatened a pregnant woman at the precinct and torched the trailer.
I get that Juliette threatened Adalind in the station. I also understand Juliette's hatred of her. Adalind smashed Juliette's life, not once, not by accident, but multiple times, purposefully, with an irrational hatred of Juliette. Adalind's hatred reached Juliette far more times than Juliette ever reciprocated back to her. So for everyone to all of the sudden act so shocked by stating "well, she went after a pregnant woman" as though Juliette should never have done that, I want to bring up something.
Adalind attacked Juliette in her own house. She didn't once consider that Juliette might be pregnant and she might be destroying another life. She didn't even consider that it really was bad form to attack someone in their own house. She just did it. She got her rear handed to her on a silver platter, but if Juliette had been pregnant and had lost the baby in that fight, so what? It's nothing to Adalind and shouldn't have been. Just like the events in the precinct. If Juliette had not stopped herself and Adalind's baby died as the result, so what? Pregnancy really is of no consequence in Grimm. If it were, Adalind wouldn't have threatened to abort her own baby way back when.
I found something interesting in the script that begins with a conversation between Adalind and Kenneth which I believe, was originally brought up by syscrash. Kenneth tells Adalind that Juliette knows things and her information might lead him to Diana's whereabouts. Adalind replies that Juliette will never betray Nick, but then Kenneth asks Adalind what she's going to do when Juliette finds out Nick is the father? He is going to be the one to tell her. The obvious answer is, of course, is that Juliette is going to betray Nick and will be coming after Adalind.
Adalind feigns indignation and states Kenneth wouldn't do that, but she really doesn't believe that at all. So instead of going into hiding from the about to be rampaging Juliette, Adalind goes straight to Nick. She knew Kenneth's plan was to get Juliette to betray Nick, yet doesn't warn Nick.
Things go exactly as foretold. Juliette goes after Adalind, just like Kenneth predicted. Nick stupidly takes the wrong tactic and protects her. Adalind, in an effort to show just how grateful she is, comes up with a suppression potion. But she also knows that Juliette's never going to take it. Juliette becomes the quintessential enemy by burning the trailer, destroying the supposedly only thing that could save her and naturally betrays Kelly and Diana ends up in the hands of the royals.
Adalind comes off smelling like a rose with Nick's baby in tow. Once again she shows just how despicable she can be.
(10-14-2017, 03:13 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: The show of people there shouldn't have been a problem. There were more people present when she took the potion to transform into Adalind. She had recently blamed them all for her turning into a Hexenbiest so the four of them being there to try and convince her to take the suppressant makes sense. I won't deny that they were all afraid to be alone with her as well.
Juliette blamed them all for becoming a hexenbiest. I don't agree with that. In my opinion, the person who's to blame is Nick. To his credit he admitted it was his fault.
The spice shop was a set up that was going to end with either Juliette taking the suppression potion or Juliette being killed because she wouldn't take the suppression potion. They were never going to consider a third option, which was to let Juliette leave as a hexenbiest. Because the scoobies failed to consider that option, they were the aggressors, in my opinion.
(10-14-2017, 08:10 PM)silver Wrote: It's possible, but I see no reason for her to be embarrassed because I think everybody was there for support of one another - just super-worried about J causing a rumble - which she did big time! I think they (she - Rosalee) felt contrite because of everybody who was involved in changing J's life - even though it wasn't anything that could have been foreseen.
You're right, no one could have foreseen what happened to Juliette. Although I still blame Nick for this one. He should have had doubts and acted upon them by refusing to go through with the reversal.
RE: Nick - Hell Rell - 10-14-2017
Juliette threatening Adalind isn't necessarily shocking because she had already done so. Juliette threatening her in the middle of a precinct is very shocking. She openly threatened a pregnant woman in the middle of a precinct. Why would any person in their right mind ever do that? Even Adalind threatening Juliette in her own home is a smart move by comparison.
As for pregnancy, it is of major consequence in Grimm. It was the cornerstone for two major arcs in the show. Adalind threatening to abort her baby doesn't negate it. It doesn't even apply in this case since it's not abortion at hand here. It would be straight up murder. I'm not even going to try and compare the two.
Nobody said Adalind threatening Juliette was right either. There was a generally positive response to Juliette kicking Adalind's ass. The response would've been even greater if Juliette were pregnant and Adalind had known. I often think that bringing up one of their actions to try and justify the other is a lose/lose situation. Sometimes, they're both wrong. This is Juliette and Adalind we're talking about after all.
Adalind wouldn't have bothered making the suppressant if she thought Juliette would refuse it. She genuinely thought that Juliette would take it and only went to Nick to buy herself some time until she did so. Adalind isn't nearly as clever as you credit her for being. None of her nefarious schemes are a secret to the audience. She didn't concoct some great plan to make Juliette look like the enemy while she would come off looking like a paragon of virtue. Adalind was really confused as to why Juliette didn't take the potion while she was lying in bed at Bud's house. She thought Nick was there to get rid of her because she thought Juliette had taken the potion and therefore Nick would have no more use for her.
Nick admitting it was his fault doesn't mean he was the only person Juliette blamed. Juliette herself said they were all to blame and said it to their faces. Rosalee told Juliette she felt partially responsible for her becoming a Hex while visiting her in jail and Juliette's exact response was, "You are."
The scoobies were defending themselves from Juliette. I would agree with you if she tried to walk out and they stopped her from leaving. That didn't happen. She shook the building and threw Rosalee across the room. I think the idea of them planning to kill her with no provocation has no reasonable basis.
RE: Nick - irukandji - 10-14-2017
Even though Juliette had threatened Nick, and all of them knew of what she could do up to that point, they must have come to the conclusion that she could be stopped by a bullet. Otherwise, Nick and Hank would never have bothered with guns.
So that said, let's say Juliette refused to take the suppression potion, but did not break the jar. Would the scoobies really have let her just walk away as a hexenbiest or would they have killed her?
(10-14-2017, 10:36 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Adalind wouldn't have bothered making the suppressant if she thought Juliette would refuse it. She genuinely thought that Juliette would take it and only went to Nick to buy herself some time until she did so. Adalind isn't nearly as clever as you credit her for being. None of her nefarious schemes are a secret to the audience. She didn't concoct some great plan to make Juliette look like the enemy while she would come off looking like a paragon of virtue. Adalind was really confused as to why Juliette didn't take the potion while she was lying in bed at Bud's house. She thought Nick was there to get rid of her because she thought Juliette had taken the potion and therefore Nick would have no more use for her.
I don't know why Adalind would be so confused over Juliette's refusal to take the suppression potion. All she'd have to do is think about what she'd done to Juliette. That should give her a great big clue right there. If that didn't get her brain thinking, then maybe she should have thought about the precinct. Juliette threatened her life. For Adalind to be so dumb to think Juliette would be thrilled enough to take her concoction, no questions asked, really makes no sense.
(10-14-2017, 10:36 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Nick admitting it was his fault doesn't mean he was the only person Juliette blamed. Juliette herself said they were all to blame and said it their faces. Rosalee told Juliette she felt partially responsible for her becoming a Hex while visiting her in jail and Juliette's exact response was, "You are."
I know and I said in my previous post I didn't agree with her blaming the scoobies for her hexenbiest state. The only one I find to blame in this is Nick.
(10-14-2017, 10:36 PM)Hell Rell Wrote: Juliette threatening Adalind isn't necessarily shocking because she had already done so. Juliette threatening her in the middle of a precinct is very shocking. She openly threatened a pregnant woman in the middle of a precinct. Why would any person in their right mind ever do that? Even Adalind threatening Juliette in her own home is a smart move by comparison.
As for pregnancy, it is of major consequence in Grimm. It was the cornerstone for two major arcs in the show. Adalind threatening to abort her baby doesn't negate it. It doesn't even apply in this case since it's not abortion at hand here. It would be straight up murder. I'm not even going to try and compare the two.
If pregnancy were of major consequence in Grimm, the writers would not have had Juliette threatening very pregnant Adalind openly in the police precinct. But what I don't get is the supposed shocked attitude of the posters here on the forum. What exactly did they expect? I can't imagine anyone thinking Juliette should have suddenly done an about face and mutter something to herself about waiting to get Adalind after she's birthed. I'm not the one who wrote that scene, the creative team did. Remember, these are the same people who wrote rape into the series 2 different times and never looked at it as rape. That, to me, is shocking. Juliette threatening Adalind was meh in comparison to that.
Now if Juliette had pushed Adalind down, her water broke, and she started birthing right there, I could see shock. But to be oh so shocked because Juliette threatened but did nothing to her enemy who just happened to be pregnant? That seems over the top to me.
RE: Nick - Robyn - 10-15-2017
Quote:…But to be oh so shocked because Juliette threatened but did nothing to her enemy who just happened to be pregnant? That seems over the top to me.
I don’t think the shock was so much what Juliette did, but rather, that Juliette - a good guy character / Nick’s girlfriend - was doing it. There’s been a lot of hoopla about Juliette helping the Royals get Diana, but Juliette previously participated in kidnapping the child. The only difference between her two actions was who benefited - the hero & his mother or the bad guys.
It’s the same with Adalind. She’s labeled a rapist instead of a mother willing to do whatever is necessary to get her child back because as a bad guy Adalind’s not even allowed to want, much less, attempt to get her child back if it goes against the hero & his mother.
RE: Nick - dicappatore - 10-15-2017
This whole idea of Juliette walking into the spice shop and being threaten by the gang is ridiculous and again, another lousy incompetent attempt of making Juliette look like the victim instead of the predator. The pro-Juliette crowd completely left out why and when Juliette decided to take the phone call and show up at the shop
She was told, not to answer her phone from Nick a few times while the poor little Juliette was being comforted by Ken. She finally accepted the call ONLY after, her puppet master, Ken, told her to answer the call. Again, the idiotic Juliette was being played like I violin.
I don’t recall, Nick ever telling her when she could answer her phone. All the sudden, this powerful independent liberated woman, became a puppet on a string. Another fact conveniently left out about her, controlled by a man who’s best interests of Juliette are at the bottom of his list, while she was on top on Nick’s list.
Imagine if at any time during all the preceding episodes, Juliette had to get permission on when and whom to take phone calls from. What would have been the reaction, by some of you, on Nick dare to tell, HIS WOMAN, what to do. Yet you overlook the control Ken imposed on her.
As for her showing up at the spice shop with four of the gang there. Four of the same people that she hanged out for how many episodes? How many times did they saved or helped eachother. Now all the sudden, she is being intimidated by, what had become her best friends? Did you all forget the Zombies episodes? Just to name one incident they fought side by side? Where these four people strangers to her? Please, wake up and smell the COUGH-EE!
RE: Nick - irukandji - 10-15-2017
(10-15-2017, 05:10 AM)Robyn Wrote:Quote:…But to be oh so shocked because Juliette threatened but did nothing to her enemy who just happened to be pregnant? That seems over the top to me.
I don’t think the shock was so much what Juliette did, but rather, that Juliette - a good guy character / Nick’s girlfriend - was doing it. There’s been a lot of hoopla about Juliette helping the Royals get Diana, but Juliette previously participated in kidnapping the child. The only difference between her two actions was who benefited - the hero & his mother or the bad guys.
What I am saying is she didn't do it. She walked toward Adalind and threatened her but she never followed through. Nick got in front of Adalind and Juliette stopped. The outrage I've been reading is over how Juliette could even fathom threatening a pregnant woman in the first place. It had nothing to do with Juliette's former good guy image.
RE: Nick - rpmaluki - 10-15-2017
Juliette threatening Adalind is one thing, Adalind had it coming. Juliette threatening an unborn baby is something else, why should it be okay to do so just because of its mother, whether Juliette is her usual good girl self or some crazed hexenbiest? I'm outraged at Juliette threatening Nick's child, not Juliette threatening Adalind.
RE: Nick - irukandji - 10-15-2017
At that stage in the series, the unborn baby is a prop just like everything else. Juliette was threatening Adalind and Adalind reacted like Juliette was threatening her.