+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Spoilers (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Spoilers)
+---- Forum: Season 5 Spoilers (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Season-5-Spoilers)
+---- Thread: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy (/Thread-WarGames-Players-diplomacy-and-strategy)
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 01-07-2016
(01-07-2016, 04:08 PM)syscrash Wrote: I thought Meisner joined HW after delivering Adalind and Diana to Kelly. The Royals wanted him for Eric's murder, and now for kidnapping Diana. So joining HW for protection make sense. But Meisner seems to hold a position higher then Chavez, meaning he must have been with them before working with Sean. But if HW made such an effort to recruit Nick, Trubel, and now Eve. wouldn't Meisner tried to recruit Kelly. According to Trubel they are keeping a close eye on everyone. Meisner was their to take over the helicopter. I find it hard to believe HW did not know about Kelly and why would that not intervene to help her.Syscrash... I liked the idea that Meisner joined the hw after helping Diana and Adelaind for protection.
Was HW misguided thinking the message to get Kelly to Portland since from Juliette was part of Nicks plan. They did not know Juliette sided with Kenneth.
That explains why at that moment he didn't get Diana to the group. He was not with then yet.
Once join the group he would have informed then about everything he knew... Diana, Kelly... After that the HW should have tried to contact Kelly. Kelly had to have worked some how while she was with Diana. Maybe some simple jobs for the HW was enough to Kelly get informed about the BC.
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - syscrash - 01-07-2016
Good point on when Meisner joined HW. Considering that Meisner sent Diana with Kelly instead of like this time to friends of the HW. Could mean he was not working with them yet.
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - jsgrimm45 - 01-07-2016
Meisner is a good character with a good story line and for this season that is saying something. As to when he join HW with his connections with Chavez or at least how it look he been with them for a time. When he first help get Adalind and Diana away from the royals Diana was born yet so he had no idea of her possible importance. He was helping Sean and the resistance which was his cover.
Once he seen LBB power he didn't have a lot of time to plan with HW so he went with Sean's plan this was to get Diana out of Europe. Now he got the time to tell HW, but does HW have agents in Portland at the time is a question. We have a rest of season 3 and now HW (Chavez is in Portland) did she pull strings to get there? When he and Chavez are talking look like they had known each other for sometime because it looked like they had a trust.
Once Chavez is in Portland and Weston Steward is killed gives them the needed opening to start to watch Nick and crew but Diana is with Kelly. Now the idea that Meisner told HW about Kelly is very good, he likely said a good person to contact. What HW now putting two two together they track down Kelly and bring her in. She may have even brought LBB with her for that reason. We can ask if HW knew Kelly was a Grimm I would say so she has a history they can follow so yes they knew she was a Grimm.
I know HW has other Grimms so it's not hard to figure the knew Kelly was a Grimm. We have also seen that HW has a leak otherwise how did BC know where the meeting Chavez took Nick to was going to be? HW looks pretty will informed but no group can know everything.
I also think it was Meisner who told Chavez that Juliette didn't get on the helicopter and Chavez sent Trubel to the likely place Juliette would go.
This is a war so strategy is good but as the saying goes all battle plans end at the first shot. So far Meisner and HW look pretty good, but they better find that leak.
But I will stick to my 2 cents.
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - syscrash - 01-07-2016
If we go with Meisner was with HW before Diana. Meisner knows Sean is in Portland and connected to Diana who is now connected to Kelly. If Meisner was to inform HW about Kelly and Diana having a connection to Sean. That might have been what got Chavez transferred to Portland. Meisner might not know Kelly was a Grimm but he know she was a great operative. While investigating Sean to find Diana to find Kelly, they found out Sean had a Grimm working for him. After Trubel Killed Stuart that confirms there is a Grimm and HW wants them.
Quote:I also think it was Meisner who told Chavez that Juliette didn't get on the helicopter and Chavez sent Trubel to the likely place Juliette would go.Juliette had not been to the house in a while. She had been staying at Sean's then with Kenneth. Why would Chavez think Juliette would go home. If anything you would think she would go to Sean. Especially if she knows Meisner and Diana are on the helicopter.
It also make sense why Chavez is confused. Information is coming in about the Grimm in Portland. But there are three Grimms in Portland. See how info about a Grimm could get confusing, Add to this when Chavez woges and doesn't see Nick is a Grimm that really must have thrown their information a curve.
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 01-08-2016
(01-07-2016, 06:01 PM)syscrash Wrote: Juliette had not been to the house in a while. She had been staying at Sean's then with Kenneth. Why would Chavez think Juliette would go home. If anything you would think she would go to Sean. Especially if she knows Meisner and Diana are on the helicopter.
It also make sense why Chavez is confused. Information is coming in about the Grimm in Portland. But there are three Grimms in Portland. See how info about a Grimm could get confusing, Add to this when Chavez woges and doesn't see Nick is a Grimm that really must have thrown their information a curve.
Good point about Chavez knowing about Juliette going Nick's home. I think about some possibilities.
1. Chavez knew Nick, Juliette and Trubel when Trubel killed the FBI agent at Nick's house. I think Chavez knew they were all living in the same place. The question is if Chavez connected all dots.
2. If Chavez was monitoring Nick after the FBI agent being killed, Chavez would know many things about Nick and Juliette. The question is why Chavez didn't know Nick was a Grimm again.
Those two options don't answer one question. How would Chavez be sure Juliette would go back to Nick's house? She wasn't living there any more. I think Juliette went back to kill Nick. I think the king fave the order and Juliette accepted because it was what she wanted. If that is the case Meisner listened the king and Juliette talk and knew she was going to kill Nick. He gave the info to Chavez. But this is just a guess.
3. Chavez just informed Trubel that Juliette was still in town and Trubel was the one figured out Juliette was going to Nick's house.
4. Chavez monitored Juliette's cell phone and informed Trubel.
Those two options I think are the most consistent ones.
(01-07-2016, 05:26 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: This is a war so strategy is good but as the saying goes all battle plans end at the first shot.
That is why I like sir Freedman definition for strategy
Quote: a strategy is not a plan, it's a long-term growth story.-- Lawrence Freedman
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - jsgrimm45 - 01-08-2016
(01-08-2016, 04:39 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:Lawrence Freedman I'll have to check him out. Chavez had already check Nick out and he failed so she thought that Nick was Kehrseite or the other one isn't but knows. Juliette one had been told by the King to take Nick out or two she knew Kenneth wasn't at the hotel any longer and Sean by then was kind of out of the picture. So that really only left Nicks and she thought they still had unfinished problems. Maybe also what she said about Kelly was somewhat true maybe she was off guard about Kenneth killing Kelly, just to be clear I don't buy that but some do.(01-07-2016, 06:01 PM)syscrash Wrote: Juliette had not been to the house in a while. She had been staying at Sean's then with Kenneth. Why would Chavez think Juliette would go home. If anything you would think she would go to Sean. Especially if she knows Meisner and Diana are on the helicopter.
It also make sense why Chavez is confused. Information is coming in about the Grimm in Portland. But there are three Grimms in Portland. See how info about a Grimm could get confusing, Add to this when Chavez woges and doesn't see Nick is a Grimm that really must have thrown their information a curve.
Good point about Chavez knowing about Juliette going Nick's home. I think about some possibilities.
1. Chavez knew Nick, Juliette and Trubel when Trubel killed the FBI agent at Nick's house. I think Chavez knew they were all living in the same place. The question is if Chavez connected all dots.
2. If Chavez was monitoring Nick after the FBI agent being killed, Chavez would know many things about Nick and Juliette. The question is why Chavez didn't know Nick was a Grimm again.
Those two options don't answer one question. How would Chavez be sure Juliette would go back to Nick's house? She wasn't living there any more. I think Juliette went back to kill Nick. I think the king fave the order and Juliette accepted because it was what she wanted. If that is the case Meisner listened the king and Juliette talk and knew she was going to kill Nick. He gave the info to Chavez. But this is just a guess.
3. Chavez just informed Trubel that Juliette was still in town and Trubel was the one figured out Juliette was going to Nick's house.
4. Chavez monitored Juliette's cell phone and informed Trubel.
Those two options I think are the most consistent ones.
(01-07-2016, 05:26 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: This is a war so strategy is good but as the saying goes all battle plans end at the first shot.
That is why I like sir Freedman definition for strategy
Quote: a strategy is not a plan, it's a long-term growth story.-- Lawrence Freedman
Do we think Chavez knows what happened at the mansion? I see that as a point to the thread we haven't covered? Trubel no doubt would have told HW plus Meisner was there also, but again Trubel is a Grimm so Chavez wouldn't have put Nick as a Grimm with Trubel being there.
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - wfmyers1207 - 01-08-2016
@jsgrimm. Now that's something I haven't considered and really should have. It's not so much if Chavez knew what happened at the mansion, if Meisner was there she almost certainly knew.
But why the hell isn't HW doing anything about the Royal's? Do they consider them to be the junior wannabe squad as compared to Black Claw?
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - jsgrimm45 - 01-08-2016
(01-08-2016, 11:02 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: @jsgrimm. Now that's something I haven't considered and really should have. It's not so much if Chavez knew what happened at the mansion, if Meisner was there she almost certainly knew.I see it as HW sees the royals and the resistance as a wash why get involved. But the mansion deal wonder how HW seen that maybe as changing the balance to the resistance?
But why the hell isn't HW doing anything about the Royal's? Do they consider them to be the junior wannabe squad as compared to Black Claw?
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - irukandji - 01-14-2016
(01-13-2016, 07:32 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: Unfortunately... I remember I listened Juliette saying in one of the promos. A world ruled by wesens. I think the writers are going to put this uprising as more than just wogin in public. It is like getting their rightful place in the world. World domination.
I got the impression she was saying that, not as in it would happen, but as in it could happen.
I thought this was a interesting statement and moved it over here.
Is world domination by wesen even possible? How would they accomplish it? More importantly, why would they want to dominate the world?
RE: WarGames: Players, diplomacy and strategy - jsgrimm45 - 01-14-2016
(01-14-2016, 06:23 AM)irukandji Wrote:Wesen for the most (not all) part are stronger than humans so they feel they have to right to rule, look at the world the strongman countries not what the people may want but they don't have the power. The strongmen don't have to control all just put the fear into all. History is littered with examples of small group take over the larger group and fear is the main weapon.(01-13-2016, 07:32 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: Unfortunately... I remember I listened Juliette saying in one of the promos. A world ruled by wesens. I think the writers are going to put this uprising as more than just wogin in public. It is like getting their rightful place in the world. World domination.
I got the impression she was saying that, not as in it would happen, but as in it could happen.
I thought this was a interesting statement and moved it over here.
Is world domination by wesen even possible? How would they accomplish it? More importantly, why would they want to dominate the world?
Why does any country today want to dominate another? Does anyone one think this will ever stop as I don't at least not in my lifetime. MAD worked for years, and IMO needs to still be used today. Yes I do know this is a TV series the question was why would wesen want to dominate because they think they have the right over us weak humans and they can.
Monroe said this has been tried before and failed, but it keeps coming back. Some madman will think I have the true plan all others failed because they didn't know what I do. We don't have to look far to see that.
Get yourself a hard core group with the right amount of fear add you are on your way.