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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 04-25-2018
(04-25-2018, 02:50 PM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Iruk,
Thought I would "pop in."
You commented:
1.Was Adalind really in danger? 2. It seems then that Nick, as a grimm, would have most certainly sensed that and immediately called for emergency backup. 3. He did no such thing and refused help when it was offered.
1. Yes, mortal danger from a deranged homicidal maniac.
Hi New Guy-
In reference to point number 1. I'm not for one minute saying Adalind didn't feel threatened. But I still pose the question, was she really in mortal danger? I'll continue.
Adalind was not by herself when Juliette walked into the precinct. Nick was with her. I think it's reasonable to say Adalind trusted Nick's judgment at that point. So while Adalind was under threat, there was *no indicator* that Nick felt threatened by Juliette.
Nick stood in Juliette's way so she couldn't get to Adalind, but Nick didn't for a minute act as though Adalind was in mortal danger. In point of fact, he had no problem with Adalind hiding behind him the whole time. If she was in such mortal danger, Nick could have held off Juliette and told Adalind to immediately hotfoot it to Renard's office. He did not. So again, was she in mortal danger? It didn't seem like it.
(04-25-2018, 02:50 PM)New Guy Wrote: 2. Backup was already in the hallway with even more police available.
3. Wu witnessed much of the confrontation. He trusted Nick's judgement. And in the end the attacker (Juliette) left.
I agree. Wu trusted Nick's judgment. But Wu is also a seasoned cop. Don't you think he'd also trust his eyes and ears and sense if Nick was in some kind of mortal danger? Instead he asks if there's a problem and Nick tells him there's not (and I am paraphrasing here).
Wu stays out of the confrontation.
(04-25-2018, 02:50 PM)New Guy Wrote: In addition you comment:
4. So was Nick a moron who gambled with Adalind and future baby? 4. No, Nick was not a Moron. He handled the potentially violent situation well. No one was injured or killed.
You made a key statement here, New Guy. You said, "He (Nick) handled the potentially violent situation well.
If this was a *potentially violent* situation, then there was no mortal danger, correct?
(04-25-2018, 02:50 PM)New Guy Wrote: 5. Or was he intuitive and guessed that while Juliette threatened, she wasn't going to follow through?
5. Juliette came in and threatened "I should've finished you off" to kill Adalind. I repeat, handled the potentially violent situation well.
G&K created Grimm with Nick as the titular hero. In the above scene, IMO they did a decent job with Nick the hero and Juliette the evil villain.
But again, you're perception is that this was a potentially violent situation. Nick did not appear to view it as a deadly situation.
We all know how Nick views deadly situations. First, he has Hank with him for backup. Second, he has his gun. If a wesen threatens Nick, he pulls out his gun and kills the wesen.
He didn't draw his gun in the precinct, which tells me that as a seasoned cop, he didn't consider the situation as one of mortal danger.
In the spice shop, when Juliette showed how powerful she was, Nick drew his gun. I don't agree with the whole set up of that scene, and in my opinion, neither Nick or Hank had any business in the spice shop that day. However, the scene shows a situation that could turn deadly and Nick's reaction. He never did that in the precinct.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Henry of green - 04-26-2018
What you have written above makes no sense whatsoever the show made it clear Nick knew Adalind was in danger, if he didn’t he wouldn’t have been so concerned about hiding her from Juliette in 4x20. You are once agian just making things up from thin air, you claiming just because Nick didn’t get Wu involved means Adalind wasn’t in danger is just utter nonsense and below are 3 different script examples of Nick openly talking about having to protect Adalinds life from Juliette.
4x20 script
Rosalee -Does anybody know where Juliette is? Nick- No.
And we need to get you someplace safe.
Nick-You can't stay here tonight.
Nick- I can't take her to my house.
That's the first place Juliette will look.
What exactly is Nick protecting Adalind from then if as you claim she is not in danger of being killed.
4x19 script
Juliette-I'm going to rip this little bitch's throat out.
Nick-You are in a police station.
Juliette-I am in hell, Nick.
And it is time she went there with me.
Nick- No matter what you think about her, the child is innocent.
Juliette - You mean your child? - Juliette! No child of hers is innocent! Don't.
Juliette- You're choosing her over me.
Nick- That is not what I'm doing
Why exactly does Nick say to Juliette about understanding her wanting to hurt Adalind but no matter what she thinks of her the child is innocent, why would he say this if as you claim the child was in no danger, are you calling Nick a liar and if so provide proof he’s lying. Also notice from the script above Juliette admits she does not think the baby deserves to live as no baby of Adalinds is innocent , clearly Adalind is in danger a blind man could see that.
Also doesn’t t Nick say clearly out loud he isn’t choosing Adalind over Juliette in the script above he states that’s not what I’m doing, when Juliette says you’re choosing her over me.
4x20 script-
Nick-Right now, you just need to make sure that she's safe.
Bud -Yeah, sure, right.
Bud- Whatever you need.
Nick- And if Juliette tries to contact you, don't tell her anything.
Hank-She wants Adalind dead.
Bud Well, yeah, okay.
Okay.
Why exactly is Nick telling Bud that he needs to keep Adalind safe and needs to tell Juliette nothing when she contacts him if according to you Nick knows Adalinds in no real danger
From Juliette. Also by your logic why is Hank telling Bud ,Juliette is trying to kill Adalind why didn’t Nick correct him by saying Juliette in no real Lethal danger from Adalind.
Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=grimm&episode=s04e20
Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=grimm&episode=s04e19
Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=grimm&episode=s04e19
Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=grimm&episode=s04e20
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 04-26-2018
(04-26-2018, 03:45 AM)Henry of green Wrote: What you have written above makes no sense whatsoever the show made it clear Nick knew Adalind was in danger, if he didn’t he wouldn’t have been so concerned about hiding her from Juliette in 4x20. You are once agian just making things up from thin air, you claiming just because Nick didn’t get Wu involved means Adalind wasn’t in danger is just utter nonsense and below are 3 different script examples of Nick openly talking about having to protect Adalinds life from Juliette.
You know what I think? I think you're upset because the scene shows Nick didn't do more to protect Adalind. You can quote all of the scripts you want, but if she was clearly in **mortal danger**, he wouldn't be confronting Juliette with Adalind standing behind him. Juliette tore up a bar with little to no effort and almost dropped a statue on Adalind. Nick knows about the bar and Adalind could have opened her big mouth about the statue. She didn't.
Juliette ended up in jail over the bar incident. She got released. If Nick really sensed this mortal danger, he could have easily had her tossed right back into jail. He's got two things on his side. He's a cop with the power *and* he was there to witness her threat. He didn't.
Nick didn't even draw his gun, which is his normal way of dealing with mortal danger.
Now go ahead and quote a thousand more scripts. You still won't be able to argue that there was clear evidence of mortal danger. To do so would label Nick an imbecile for letting a pregnant woman hang out with him while he talked to the big bad and very dangerous hexenbiest.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Henry of green - 04-26-2018
(04-26-2018, 04:08 AM)irukandji Wrote:(04-26-2018, 03:45 AM)Henry of green Wrote: What you have written above makes no sense whatsoever the show made it clear Nick knew Adalind was in danger, if he didn’t he wouldn’t have been so concerned about hiding her from Juliette in 4x20. You are once agian just making things up from thin air, you claiming just because Nick didn’t get Wu involved means Adalind wasn’t in danger is just utter nonsense and below are 3 different script examples of Nick openly talking about having to protect Adalinds life from Juliette.
You know what I think? I think you're upset because the scene shows Nick didn't do more to protect Adalind. You can quote all of the scripts you want, but if she was clearly in **mortal danger**, he wouldn't be confronting Juliette with Adalind standing behind him. Juliette tore up a bar with little to no effort and almost dropped a statue on Adalind. Nick knows about the bar and Adalind could have opened her big mouth about the statue. She didn't.
We see how Nick deals with mortal danger. None of that occurred in the precinct.
Now go ahead and quote a thousand more scripts. You still won't be able to argue that.
You ignore script anyway beacuse it doesn’t suit your own narrative so what’s the point, yes Nick didn’t do enough to protect Adalind, more nonsense from you, clearly nick done enough to protect Adalind he stood directly in front of Juliette acting as a human shield between her and Adalind. Also Adalind went on to have a healthy baby boy, so clearly Nick succeeded in protecting her. Your the one thats upset he protected Adalind you would have preferred he let Juliette rip her throat out. nick dealt with mortal danger many different ways throughout the show not just one set way. Also you accuse Nick on one hand of choosing Adalind over Juliette then scold him for not doing enough to protect Adalind, make up your mind or does it not matter as long as you can find something to attack nick about.
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 04-26-2018
(04-26-2018, 04:22 AM)Henry of green Wrote: You ignore script anyway beacuse it doesn’t suit your own narrative so what’s the point, yes Nick didn’t do enough to protect Adalind, more nonsense from you, clearly nick done enough to protect Adalind he stood directly in front of Juliette acting as a human shield between her and Adalind. Also Adalind went on to have a healthy baby boy, so clearly Nick succeeded in protecting her. Your the one thats upset he protected Adalind you would have preferred he let Juliette rip her throat out. nick dealt with mortal danger many different ways throughout the show not just one set way.
And you are just upset because Nick didn't consider this a situation of mortal danger. He considered it a situation where he could talk Juliette down and get her to leave the precinct.
Now go ahead and make up some scenarios on how Adalind was in such mortal danger in the precinct. Please, feel free to quote 40 more scripts that won't support your point.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Henry of green - 04-26-2018
(04-26-2018, 04:27 AM)irukandji Wrote:(04-26-2018, 04:22 AM)Henry of green Wrote: You ignore script anyway beacuse it doesn’t suit your own narrative so what’s the point, yes Nick didn’t do enough to protect Adalind, more nonsense from you, clearly nick done enough to protect Adalind he stood directly in front of Juliette acting as a human shield between her and Adalind. Also Adalind went on to have a healthy baby boy, so clearly Nick succeeded in protecting her. Your the one thats upset he protected Adalind you would have preferred he let Juliette rip her throat out. nick dealt with mortal danger many different ways throughout the show not just one set way.
And you are just upset because Nick didn't consider this a situation of mortal danger. He considered it a situation where he could talk Juliette down and get her to leave the precinct.
Now go ahead and make up some scenarios on how Adalind was in such mortal danger in the precinct. Please, feel free to quote 40 more scripts that won't support your point.
I am not making up stories I am talking them directly from the screen and script , your the one attempting to read nicks mind, claiming he didn’t think Adalind was in danger. Nick tells Juliette not to hurt Adalind and her innocent baby that seems like mortal danger to me.
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 04-26-2018
Don't think for one moment I don't know what you're doing. You're waiting for the other to come on board so the two of you can have another back and forth fest full of insults.
In response to making things up, I have yet to read anything from anyone proving that Adalind was in mortal danger. Even you despite your 40 scripts. And I'm making things up? You can't even prove your point.
RE: Eve/Juliette - New Guy - 04-26-2018
(04-25-2018, 05:31 PM)irukandji Wrote:Hi Iruk,(04-25-2018, 02:50 PM)New Guy Wrote: 5. Or was he intuitive and guessed that while Juliette threatened, she wasn't going to follow through?
5. Juliette came in and threatened "I should've finished you off" to kill Adalind. I repeat, handled the potentially violent situation well.
G&K created Grimm with Nick as the titular hero. In the above scene, IMO they did a decent job with Nick the hero and Juliette the evil villain.
But again, you're perception is that this was a potentially violent situation. Nick did not appear to view it as a deadly situation.
We all know how Nick views deadly situations. First, he has Hank with him for backup. Second, he has his gun. If a wesen threatens Nick, he pulls out his gun and kills the wesen.
He didn't draw his gun in the precinct, which tells me that as a seasoned cop, he didn't consider the situation as one of mortal danger.
In the spice shop, when Juliette showed how powerful she was, Nick drew his gun. I don't agree with the whole set up of that scene, and in my opinion, neither Nick or Hank had any business in the spice shop that day. However, the scene shows a situation that could turn deadly and Nick's reaction. He never did that in the precinct.
The hallway situation was potentially deadly. Hexenette had just been bailed out of jail for the bar room brawl violence. She threatened to kill Adalind on the spot. If Hexenette woged and attacked, Nick, Hank and Wu would have defended the targeted victim with deadly force.
Nick clearly was needed at the spice shop. Here is the Grimm Wiki synopsis:
Quote:Juliette arrives at the spice shop, and Juliette asks how they figured out how to make the suppressant, and Hank tells her the books from the trailer. Nick tells her it will work, and Juliette says they would have had to try it on another Hexenbiest to make sure it works. Rosalee hands Nick the jar with the suppressant, and he hands it to Juliette. She then causes the spice shop to shake, and Nick tells her to stop. The shaking stops, and Juliette asks if it looks like she need anyone's help. She tosses the jar into the air, causing it to levitate, and Rosalee tries to grab it, but Juliette throws her against a shelf with her telekinetic abilities. The jar falls to the ground and breaks as Monroe woges. Juliette smacks him across the face, again with her telekinesis, and Hank draws his gun, but Juliette causes it to fly out of his hands. Juliette asks, "When are you all gonna learn that I like who I am?" Nick draws his gun and says they don't, and Juliette woges. She then makes Nick point his gun at Monroe and Rosalee. Monroe gets Rosalee out of the way, and Nick says he can't let go of his gun. Monroe freezes in fear as Nick's gun goes off.Note that when Rosalee hands Nick the suppressant potion to give to Hexenette, she throws a tantrum and smashes it. She attacks Rosalee. She attacks Monroe. Hank draws his gun. Then Nick draws his gun. She ties to force Nick to shoot Monroe.
The level of Hexenette's violence in the spice shop far exceeds her threats of violence in the precinct. Nick demonstrate crisis management skill in both cases. If Nick and Hank were not at the spice shop, she may have gone violent and killed Rosalee and Monroe. Both scenes are examples of the cops risking their lives to save innocent people.
N G
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 04-26-2018
I never saw Nick picking sides. If the two Hexenbiest were threatening each other and Nick was rooting for one or helping another, thats taking a side.
There was no fight between them for Nick to pick a side. All I saw is one person threatening another person with intent to kill. By him stepping in, he prevented, his unborn child's death. Adalind's death and Juliette from further incarcerations. Didn't matter if Juliette was able to kill Adalind using her powers. She would have been re-arrested if Adalind had a scratch on her, after her threat, let alone if she was killed.
Here is the amusing part of this forum. You have one Juliette sympathizer claiming that Juliette could easily have killed Adalind and gotten away with murder then you have another claiming Adalind was in no grave danger.
Juliette fans, get it together!
RE: Eve/Juliette - irukandji - 04-26-2018
(04-26-2018, 11:32 AM)New Guy Wrote: Hi Iruk,
The hallway situation was potentially deadly. Hexenette had just been bailed out of jail for the bar room brawl violence. She threatened to kill Adalind on the spot. If Hexenette woged and attacked, Nick, Hank and Wu would have defended the targeted victim with deadly force.
Nick clearly was needed at the spice shop. Here is the Grimm Wiki synopsis:
Quote:Juliette arrives at the spice shop, and Juliette asks how they figured out how to make the suppressant, and Hank tells her the books from the trailer. Nick tells her it will work, and Juliette says they would have had to try it on another Hexenbiest to make sure it works. Rosalee hands Nick the jar with the suppressant, and he hands it to Juliette. She then causes the spice shop to shake, and Nick tells her to stop. The shaking stops, and Juliette asks if it looks like she need anyone's help. She tosses the jar into the air, causing it to levitate, and Rosalee tries to grab it, but Juliette throws her against a shelf with her telekinetic abilities. The jar falls to the ground and breaks as Monroe woges. Juliette smacks him across the face, again with her telekinesis, and Hank draws his gun, but Juliette causes it to fly out of his hands. Juliette asks, "When are you all gonna learn that I like who I am?" Nick draws his gun and says they don't, and Juliette woges. She then makes Nick point his gun at Monroe and Rosalee. Monroe gets Rosalee out of the way, and Nick says he can't let go of his gun. Monroe freezes in fear as Nick's gun goes off.Note that when Rosalee hands Nick the suppressant potion to give to Hexenette, she throws a tantrum and smashes it. She attacks Rosalee. She attacks Monroe. Hank draws his gun. Then Nick draws his gun. She ties to force Nick to shoot Monroe.
The level of Hexenette's violence in the spice shop far exceeds her threats of violence in the precinct. Nick demonstrate crisis management skill in both cases. If Nick and Hank were not at the spice shop, she may have gone violent and killed Rosalee and Monroe. Both scenes are examples of the cops risking their lives to save innocent people.
N G
Hi New Guy-
There is no argument in my mind with regard to the spice shop. While I continue to think Nick and Hank had no business being there, Nick drew his gun. In my opinion, Nick assessed the situation and believed there was grave danger. That said, Nick was a complete doofus during that whole incident. Threats and use of a weapon to make Juliette take the potion reveals a hotheaded Nick who wants his own way and is willing to utilize force in order to get it. As a side note, it makes me wonder just how far Nick would go, say, if Rosalee or Monroe suddenly went rogue, but I digress.
Just as foolhardy was Nick's underestimation of his former girlfriend. He knew she could toss him into the next year with a flick of the wrist but chose to ignore the danger.
If we're to believe Nick is capable of assessing grave danger during the spice shop incident, then it's logical he must also be capable of sensing grave danger during the confrontation in the precinct. It's apparent Nick did not sense Juliette to be a grave threat. Otherwise, he would have informed Wu that he needed help, and he would have instructed Adalind to seek safety within the precinct, away from Juliette.
What's even more telling is Adalind's reaction. If she sensed Juliette to be such a grave threat, she would have left Nick's side and sought out protection in another area, probably Renard's office.