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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 04-10-2018
(04-10-2018, 01:16 AM)syscrash Wrote: People over look a given provided in the show when it comes to hexenbiest fighting Grimms. Remember when Kelly was confronted with the information that Sean was involved with going after her sister. Both of there attitude was it was a hexenbiest vs grimm conflict which makes it understandable. This make Juliette vs Kelly fit into the same frame work of logic. this idea that it's different because it was Nick mother. or that Juliette knew Kelly or Nick does not consider the givens. Remember at the time Juliette was a hexenbiest, not Juliette. We know this is a given because when she first went to the spice shop and exposed what she was, she explained she was losing herself.
Remember in the world of wesen there is no wesen on wesen crime. In the world of wesen it is the survival of the fittest. How many times did we hear Monroe and Rosalee say maybe Nick needs to let this case go.
Your assumptions would be on point if the show Pilot Episode was one of the last episode of Season 4. Lets say, the episode Juliette sees herself as a Hex after she was dating Nick for only a few months, let alone living together.
Again you are so predictable. What you posted above just eliminated 3 and 3/4 seasons. You just chucked them out the window as if nothing happened in this series before Juliette became a full blow Hex.
This is just one more example of posting an opinion supported by eliminating more than a scene or an episode but almost 4 seasons. Are you realy this bent on proving a idiotic point by overlooking the past Nick and Juliette had?
Yea, he was a Grimm and she was a Hex. Remember, there is an additional 3 years of their relationship that we weren't privy to before the Pilot episode. You just completely dismiss what amounts to about 6 years of their relationship. Wait, maybe the FACT of their prior relationship is just my imagination.
Are you just doing this to trigger a response or do you actually believe your short-sited and conveniently overlooking facts to support your speculation?
Just one more question. Since you are "soooooooooo" intuitive on the "writers intent". What was the creative team's/writers purpose for producing over 3 seasons, prior to her becoming a Hex, to come up with your assumption?
RE: Eve/Juliette - syscrash - 04-10-2018
Juliette was not a hexenbiest the first three seasons. IN the first three season we learned who Juliette was. That way we could see the clear difference once she became a hexenbiest. We also got to see in season 4 a lot of how she acted was the same as how Adalind acted. They both where driven by revenge. Think about it Juliette was captured yet you did not see her even speak of revenge. Even once Juliette was in the know, see was mad at Adalind but even when Adalind showed up . You did not see signs of wanting revenge.
I am not sure the point you are making using the character in the first three season to support your argument for the character in season 4. As Juliette said she was losing herself, which is exactly what we saw happen. She was physically changed so yes My assumption is ignoring everything before the change. Even Adalind said being a hexenbiest changes you. Sean said what she does will determine what she becomes. That is three characters that state Juliette pre change is not the same Juliette post change.
Who see became has nothing to do with her prior relationship, or feelings. From season 4 on you never heard one line of Juliette or Eve talk about how it used to be. Nick was the only one trying to hold onto the past. Even during the fight Juliete only talked about the conflict they just went through, not about their relationship. Even as Eve she said they are no longer the same people they where as a couple. I am not sure how many times the writers need to drop hints that Juliette / Eve is not the Juliette we meet in season one through season three.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 04-10-2018
(04-10-2018, 08:12 AM)syscrash Wrote: Juliette was not a hexenbiest the first three seasons. IN the first three season we learned who Juliette was. That way we could see the clear difference once she became a hexenbiest. We also got to see in season 4 a lot of how she acted was the same as how Adalind acted. They both where driven by revenge. Think about it Juliette was captured yet you did not see her even speak of revenge. Even once Juliette was in the know, see was mad at Adalind but even when Adalind showed up . You did not see signs of wanting revenge.
I am not sure the point you are making using the character in the first three season to support your argument for the character in season 4. As Juliette said she was losing herself, which is exactly what we saw happen. She was physically changed so yes My assumption is ignoring everything before the change. Even Adalind said being a hexenbiest changes you. Sean said what she does will determine what she becomes. That is three characters that state Juliette pre change is not the same Juliette post change.
Who see became has nothing to do with her prior relationship, or feelings. From season 4 on you never heard one line of Juliette or Eve talk about how it used to be. Nick was the only one trying to hold onto the past. Even during the fight Juliete only talked about the conflict they just went through, not about their relationship. Even as Eve she said they are no longer the same people they where as a couple. I am not sure how many times the writers need to drop hints that Juliette / Eve is not the Juliette we meet in season one through season three.
My argument is not with your summation of what happened. My argument is with your claim of logic. your quote:
Quote:Both of there attitude was it was a hexenbiest vs grimm conflict which makes it understandable. This make Juliette vs Kelly fit into the same frame work of logic. this idea that it's different because it was Nick mother. or that Juliette knew Kelly or Nick does not consider the givens.
In my opinion, and this is an opinion. Given what occurred for three or four seasons and what these two went through to get to where they were, to just before she becomes a Hex. What happened afterwords is the last thing to claim it was a "framework of logic". If this is your definition of these two characters did was logical, I guess we must have been watching "The Chronicles of Vulcan".
The last thing these two characters did was logical. even Spock, being half human wasn't as cold and calculating as these two were. Well I will admit, she was more illogical than he was but I always favored Nick more than Juliette. I wonder why!
RE: Eve/Juliette - syscrash - 04-10-2018
When Kelly first heard that Sean was involved with Killing her sister she was mad. But once Sean explained the her sister was a Grimm and it was about getting the key. Kelly understood. That established the logic of how they viewed conflicts. Why wouldn't that be the same rules for Juliette the hexenbiest vs Kelly.
Quote:Given what occurred for three or four seasons and what these two went through to get to where they were, to just before she becomes a Hex.The only way there life before Juliette change would have any bearing would be if you bo not buy that transforming into a hexenbiest does not change you. That would also mean you do not believe Sean when he told Juliette what she does control what she becomes. You do not believe when Juliette said she was losing herself. You also do not believe Adalind when she to Roseale that being a hexenbiest changes you.
You keep wanting to prove that Nick and Juliettes history should make a difference. From what we saw it did not.
RE: Eve/Juliette - brandon - 04-10-2018
I think there were several reasons that caused the break: the absurd fear of Juliette towards Nick.
The guilty felt Nick, and Juliette thought like that.
It is impossible to live with someone who constantly reproach his guilty.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 04-11-2018
(04-10-2018, 11:48 AM)brandon Wrote: I think there were several reasons that caused the break: the absurd fear of Juliette towards Nick.
The guilty felt Nick, and Juliette thought like that.
It is impossible to live with someone who constantly reproach his guilty.
Ahh brandon, you are a breath of fresh air. If anyone can just easily dismiss six years or more of a loving relationship says a lot about the person dismissing it.
(04-10-2018, 10:57 AM)syscrash Wrote: When Kelly first heard that Sean was involved with Killing her sister she was mad. But once Sean explained the her sister was a Grimm and it was about getting the key. Kelly understood. That established the logic of how they viewed conflicts. Why wouldn't that be the same rules for Juliette the hexenbiest vs Kelly.
Quote:Given what occurred for three or four seasons and what these two went through to get to where they were, to just before she becomes a Hex.The only way there life before Juliette change would have any bearing would be if you bo not buy that transforming into a hexenbiest does not change you. That would also mean you do not believe Sean when he told Juliette what she does control what she becomes. You do not believe when Juliette said she was losing herself. You also do not believe Adalind when she to Roseale that being a hexenbiest changes you.
You keep wanting to prove that Nick and Juliettes history should make a difference. From what we saw it did not.
Well obviously how they behaved, their history did not influence their behavior. How can I contradict what occurred on the screen? So, here you go, deflecting the original argument. Since when did this become a discussion on how we saw them behave as they did on the screen. I was under the impression that this was about your perception of "writers intent" and "framework of logic'. When did it become a dispute on how they conducted themselves, or better yet, how the writers wrote them.
But this is typical when one sees they have lost the argument and skew the discussion to something that isn't in dispute. Sorry to disappoint you but I am reverting back to what were were discussing. Why did their breakup behavior make no sense with a 6 plus years of history.
I guess, besides basing our opinions on the facts we are also guided by our own experiences. I can only place myself and my wife in place of Nick and Juliette.
Without going into details and what I been through with my wife for the last 42 years of marriage and 45 years of knowing her, obviously what we experienced is not what these two fictional characters in a fictional TV show did. As much our own trials and tribulations do not come close to what these two experienced. The larger differences are, as lesser intricate or difficult our experiences were and are, ours are real, not fiction nor fantasies.
Based or real life experiences these two did not react in a matter in which we would have. Hence, in my interpretation of your interpretations of the writers or their intent or your perspective of "framework of logic' is all hog wash.
RE: Eve/Juliette - brandon - 04-13-2018
juliette moved away from him in the first place, guided by prejudice.
Then presenting herself ready to fight in the precinct and demanding that he choose her.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 04-13-2018
(04-13-2018, 06:20 AM)brandon Wrote: juliette moved away from him in the first place, guided by prejudice.
Then presenting herself ready to fight in the precinct and demanding that he choose her.
yea, she left him then shags Sean, shows up at the precinct to make demands, then she goes back to Kenneth and starts to whine why he didn't treat her like his girlfriend. just more factual scenes some seem to intentionally overlook. Such a nice gal. Yea we all know, Her Hex was taking over, bla bla bla...
RE: Eve/Juliette - brandon - 04-13-2018
Juliette laughed at Nick , hinting that she was not interested( chapter "Heartbreak").
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 04-13-2018
(04-13-2018, 11:35 AM)brandon Wrote: Juliette laughed at Nick , hinting that she was not interested( chapter "Heartbreak").
You mean the scene when she returns home and was unexpected to find Nick when she told him she came back to get a few of her things. He told her he wanted to work things out, she asked why, he replied, because I love you and she laughed at his face?