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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - brandon - 12-28-2015
I think that she could never after having crossed the line - made to kill Kelly and the neighbors, I think that has had arrepintimiento nor that his excuse is that that is transformed into a "Hexenbiest" I did that.
I hope sinceramentre who has had a good brainwashing along with the arrow.
There is speculation about that the arrow would not have been a lethal potion
RE: Eve/Juliette - syscrash - 12-28-2015
[quote]
JSgrimm45 wrote
I'm paraphrasing here you see Eve as someone who knows all that has happened but now longer feels an attachment to those events. The Juliette memories are just a past event that no longer has meaning to Eve. I can see that working but it is going to take good writing and acting to get that across. It's you point how would you write it?
[\quote]
You are correct if this works will depend on the writing. Because they are giving us so much on who and what Eve is. Lets me think the writers also are worried about selling the concept. To keep is simple they may let the vague Idea of Eve is a brainwashed Juliette. But as with other plots on the show. Those that understand Juliette season 4. Will understand what got her to the point of being Eve. Season four spent a lot of time an dialog establishing Juliette out look on her transformation. If you ask me I think the original script called for Juliette to leave and come back as Eve. They changed it to dying to help sell the switch from Juliette and Eve. Remember a lot a viewer's do not get a lot of the subtext in what is going on. They only see the show in black and white. Providing what looked like she died then add in military training and label it brainwashing.
Ad in statemnts about emotions. For the shallow viewers they draw the inference Eve is a drone. Becasue of Eve flat affect and robtic like actions this works for them. Sure they see it as Eve is a bad character, But the writers will make up for that with action shots.
The reset of us will realize The pain Juliette was feeling was the cause for Juliette to shut down.
Ignore the who fault or what they should have done. Just the facts from Juliette position. Juliette worse enemy tricks her boyfriend into having sex in their bed. She is then infected by this encounter. While dealing with this Juliette finds out her fiance is the father of a child from this encounter. That alone would be enough to really screw up your day. But wait it get worse. While dealing with this Her boyfriend is rejecting her. Even after explaining how she want to learn how to deal with the situation to her boyfriend and best friends. The friends who she risked everything for, can only see wanting the old Juliette and want nothing to do with the new hexenbiest version.
Reme, when Juliette came to the shop Rosalee and Monroe didn't even know had no idea of any of her behavior. Other then her antagonistic why of showing what she had become. Yet they still shunned her let her leave with no one to turn to.
The writer went way over to top to drive home the idea why Eve feels that Juliette has died.Juliette being dead is how all the people she knows and loves see her and will always see her unless she can be the old Juliette.
I am surprised they did not have Juleitte contemplating suicide as a way out. But as Eve she no longer feels obligated to live up to the group's standards. As Eve she doesn't have to deal with feeling their rejection. To Eve all of that will be what they are projecting at Juliette who is dead, and not at Eve. The good part she is going to let them know it. They start to try and guilt her on past actions. It will go in one ear and out the other. For the same reason she will no longer have the anger for Adalind. EVen though Eve hates Nick for making the choice between his son, Adalind and her. She will respect that he stood up and did what was needed to take care of his son.
Adalind will also put Nick out of the room . Not because of Eve, but because she will see Eve making it as an independant, she will feel obligated to do the same. This change to Adalind becoming more independent will bring Nick and her even closer. ADalind being needy and dependent is going to remind him of Juliette o much to even want to try with Adalind.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 01-04-2016
I don't know if someone else has talked about this here or in another topic.
I think that with Eve the writers created a trap for themselves.
First, from my point of view they created an inconsistence between the power of Eve and the others hexanbiexts in the show. Apparently Eve will be almost all-powerful. She was able to deal with almost a hundred of wesens in a room.
But…
Adelaind lost her powers to just one grimm (Nick).
Adelaind’s mother was killed by a grimm alone (Kelly).
Henrieta was killed by only one wesen (Renard possessed by Jack).
The show has said Juliette / Eve is a different hexanbiest because she is a created one. But if there is a way to create a hexanbiest so powerful, why the already born hexanbiests didn’t try to create a similar process to increase their powers?
My point is that until now Eve’s power is too much high comparing to others hexanbiests in the show. This rises some questions that the writers will have to be too creative to answer… or they will have to simply expect us to accept what they want us to accept, like: why did Juliette became hexanbiest in the first place? We don’t have an explanation yet.
Second, looking for the future… Again the writers will have to be creative to create some kind of weakness for her… or again we will have some questions the writers will expect us to ignore.
If Eve is so powerful, what will be the role of the others characters in the show? I mean, with a so powerful character in the show, the others end up acting in the shadow of that one.
If Eve decide to fight against Nick, HW and the others, how to defeat her if she has no weak point?
Just to stay with some questions.
I am not saying this plot can’t work. I am saying the writers will have to be very creative to make this work. And considering the past events in the show, I am not sure the writers will be able to do this.
RE: Eve/Juliette - syscrash - 01-04-2016
Elizabeth stopped time, or at least froze everyone. Henrietta was able to communicate over long distances. These are examples that show Eve is still within the limits of what has been shown. It also seems that each hexenbiest is different they all do not seem to have the same abilities. Maybe they all have not learned the same abilities.
We already know Adalind is the weakest of all the hexenbiest we have seen. It is obvious that ADalind never practices her craft, or even listen to her mother's teaching. She did not even know how to open the book. Kelly and Catherine were not trying to kill each other. Plus we do not know what powers Catherine has. If the daugher is an example of the mother powers, then it make sense why Catherine lost the fight.
We have seen ADalind try and influence, with varying success. We saw Henrietta take total control of Nick.
In biestfight. Juliette was able to through ADalind across the room without touching her. Adalind had to use her strength to through Juliette. That is why when Adalind had Juliette pinned. Juliette used telekinesis to throw ADalind to the ceiling.
The scene I found interesting. Adalind throws the vase at Sean it hits him in the head. She does the same to Juliette who catches it without even looking.
RE: Eve/Juliette - New Guy - 01-04-2016
Hi Forum,
First and foremost the future of the show depends upon Juliette (Hexenette) being dead. My Father told me that "death is permanent." Renard's death, two headed snake reversal and resurrection of Jack the Ripper did not sell well with viewers. The promos, previews and cast interviews promised Juliette was dead.
Syscrash says:
Quote:Remember a lot a viewer's do not get a lot of the subtext in what is going on. They only see the show in black and white. andYes I am a "shallow viewer" and I expect people to say what they mean and mean what they say. No amount of "subtext" will alter the fact that the writers lied to us.
For the shallow viewers . . ."
Adriano comments:
Quote: First, from my point of view they created an inconsistence between the power of Eve and the others hexanbiexts in the show.Adriano then provides several examples to support his position. Good work.
Syscrash relates the downfall of Juliette and blames Nick and the Scoobies:
Quote:The reset of us will realize The pain Juliette was feeling was the cause for Juliette to shut down. . . Juliette finds out her fiance is the father of a child . . .Note that Nick was not her fiance. She said no. Not only did she spurn him, but eventually betrays him even to participate in Kelly's murder. The cat scratch coma, memory lapse and mental confusion of Renard as her lover was tortuous for Nick. He remained faithful to her through it all. He even moved out of his own house to give her room to recover. Yet when he needs her understanding that through deception he became a father, Juliette just tries to attack Adalind and his child. She then tops it off initiating fornication with Nick's boss and the one who likely personally decapitated his mother.
We shallow people just have to cry for poor innocent Juliette. Gee, it must be the subtext makes her pure as driven snow.
New Guy
RE: Eve/Juliette - speakeasy - 01-04-2016
New guy, I fear you're getting very close to switching your t.v. watching schedule. If this thing with the new Eve gets some traction, I don't think you'll be able to stick around for the duration.
I probably am a shallow viewer also, because I don't have much concern that Eve will figure in the near future of the show, she is simply not stable enough for that, in my opinion. Her handlers, and I believe she could never be an independent agent, will learn quickly that they have a tiger by the tail - and will have to destroy her. I make no secret of my fondness for the Juliette character, but cannot fathom how such a fabricated creature could be allowed to move around on her own without causing tragedy. Surface fans like me can't plumb the depths of logic to any other conclusion.
I have always thought Adalind was a very powerful, though unseasoned, Hexenbiest. I still believe that. We shall see. No one other character has driven the story lines of Grimm as much as Adalind. She is at the center of almost everything that has happened on the show, including producing what has been touted as the most powerful child alive. She's just getting started, imo.
As for her training, it's apparent to me that she is self-taught. Her mother, Catherine, appeared to be a disinterested parent, at best. Adalind has done immature and vindictive things in the past, but there has been a gradual build-up toward more sophisticated Hexenbiest maneuvers as time went by. That awful business with getting her powers back took a kind of angry fearlessness in itself. While pointing to a grievous character flaw more than anything else, it nevertheless was a feat of maximum determination. And she's plenty smart - lawyer, etc. I predict she will far more useful than Eve in Nick's struggle with this uprising and all the extended problems that will follow.
But no romance between N and A, please. Note to file - Adalind said she's allergic to raw tomatoes. I think that means something.
RE: Eve/Juliette - syscrash - 01-04-2016
A lot of the condemnation is not that Juliette did not have a reason to be mad. But the objections seem to be people do not agree her response was appropriate. Nick standing up for his child even though it meant choosing his enemy over his girlfriend show Nick is an admirable guy will to put his child before anything. This show the contrast between Sean and Adalind as parents. The same action that show Nick as admirable also shows the level of hurt being felt by Juliette. The reason her retaliations was so extreme. If Juliette has only sent Nick angry email we would not feel her hurt. What makes a better point than an over exaggeration. The funny part is viewers complain because Juliette over reacted, but the viewers don't have a problem when they over exaggerate their response.
We had four season of people complaining how evil Adalind was. Now that she is calm and considerate the complaints are she is not boring, and the viewer want the old exciting Adalind back.
RE: Eve/Juliette - New Guy - 01-04-2016
Hi Speakeasy,
Ok, you can join the Shallow Viewer Club. Just mail your dues (2 cents) to:
I'm Shallow Too
805 NE Prescott St
Portland, OR 97211
New Guy
RE: Eve/Juliette - speakeasy - 01-04-2016
(01-04-2016, 04:57 PM)syscrash Wrote: A lot of the condemnation is not that Juliette did not have a reason to be mad. But the objections seem to be people do not agree her response was appropriate. Nick standing up for his child even though it meant choosing his enemy over his girlfriend show Nick is an admirable guy will to put his child before anything. This show the contrast between Sean and Adalind as parents. The same action that show Nick as admirable also shows the level of hurt being felt by Juliette. The reason her retaliations was so extreme. If Juliette has only sent Nick angry email we would not feel her hurt. What makes a better point than an over exaggeration. The funny part is viewers complain because Juliette over reacted, but the viewers don't have a problem when they over exaggerate their response.
We had four season of people complaining how evil Adalind was. Now that she is calm and considerate the complaints are she is not boring, and the viewer want the old exciting Adalind back.
I disagree that a comparison can be made between Adalind and Renard's situation and Nick and Adalind's situation. Renard was absolutely right when he went along with Kelly's proposal that Diana must be raised away from her parents or they would be putting her in danger at all times, imo. I found no problem in seeing the exigency in this decision. In fact, it still holds true, imo, and Diana should be raised way from the Resistance or the Royals, it's important to the world. Brought up in a normal way, so she grows into a good person, and that absolutely precludes her parents because she would be in harm's way with them. Sad, but true, I believe.
Nick may face something similar down the line with his son, his enemies will surely try to reach Nick through his child. Occupational hazard of those involved in fighting an enemy. Also sad but true, I believe.
Can't speak for other fans but the record will absolutely show that I have supported Adalind as a powerful Hexenbiest from the start of the show. We all know that the character will not remain a latent wesen anyway. Her need to protect her child will demand she can fight back effectively.
As for Juliette, I have accepted what the writers did to the character since it's done. But I don't know how much Juliette was reacting from the pain of Nick's rejection at first or his wanting to change her back instead of trying to remake their relationship with its new dimensions. Or how much was spiteful behavior, doesn't matter to me anymore. Except this - she was victimized by outside forces every step of the way to me. She's still being victimized, imo.
RE: Eve/Juliette - Hexenadler - 01-04-2016
(01-04-2016, 05:20 PM)speakeasy Wrote: But I don't know how much Juliette was reacting from the pain of Nick's rejection at first or his wanting to change her back instead of trying to remake their relationship with its new dimensions.
I'm slowly putting together a fanfic based on this scenario. Normally I turn my nose up at fan-fiction, but the outcome to season four just left me too damn depressed.
One of these days, I might actually finish it.
