(11-27-2015, 06:05 PM)Belle Wrote:

(11-27-2015, 03:56 PM)Hexenadler Wrote:

(11-27-2015, 09:17 AM)Belle Wrote: It's interesting that you don't like that Nick is morally compromised because that is actually what I enjoy most about his character and the show.
The flawed hero whose struggles are distinctly human always appeal to me more than straight forward stories with very clear delineation between right and wrong. It's the reason I also enjoy watching shows like the Walking Dead and reading mangas.
A pure hero who always does the "right" thing doesn't strike me as realistic because in life the "right" thing is rarely straight forward.

It's more straightforward than you think. While the "morally grey" approach might be appropriate for material like THE WALKING DEAD or GAME OF THRONES, those stories are about civilizations on the brink of collapse (or have already collapsed). The people behind GRIMM are trying to paste the same kind of pessimistic mentality on a series that wasn't originally conceived in that light, and it shows.

A hero can make a mistake. Hell, one of my favorite protagonists from '80's action movies is John McClane from DIE HARD. Now there was a deeply flawed man if there ever was any. But ultimately, you could still depend on McClane to make the correct choice from an ethical standpoint.

But Nick has been turned into something less than a "flawed hero," thanks in part to badly conceived choices from a storytelling perspective. As irukandji has pointed out, he's repeatedly violated the law and taken advantage of his status as a police officer for strictly personal ends. That kind of B.S. catches up with you in the end.

You believe a "pure" hero is unrealistic and boring. I believe it's something we need more than ever, especially in a day and age where NO ONE seems to be trustworthy anymore, whether they're a politician, a doctor, a businessman, or a policeman.

Umm...Not sure why you are so certain what the original concept for the show was. Personally, I wasn't in on the development of the series, so I don't presume to know what the creative team's original vision was.

As far as you telling me it's "more straightforward that you think", that seems more than a little condescending and unnecessary. Not sure what I did to deserve that apart from sharing a perspective that differs from yours.

Based on your comment, it seems as though you view every situation as having an absolute right or wrong, whereas I do not. In order to be the kind of protagonist you are describing, a hero would not only need to have the fortitude to do what is "right" and the preternatural ability to recognize what it is, they'd also need to have the exceptionally good luck of never running across a situation where there simply isn't a clear, perfect, absolutely right choice that is superior to all other in every sense.
Put another way, for me at least, the moral character of Grimm is less about the type of person Nick is and more about the situations he's had to face. I consider Grimm to have several heroes because many of the characters struggle to identify what the right thing to do is, then ultimately commit to doing it.
What I love best about the show are the complex and fanciful situations the writers develop for those heroes to face. The writers of Grimm get to transcend reality in order to create all sorts novel challenges that test the characters in ways that typical shows cannot. Personally, I find the episodes in which Nick has to work really hard to figure out what the right thing to do is are the best.

As far as Nick having become "less that a flawed hero", I respectfully disagree. While Nick, as well Hank, Wu and Renard, have had to violate their oaths of office and virtually every character on Grimm has had to break the law at some point, with the exception of Juliette, I don't think any of them have lost their way.
There can be little doubt Nick's heart has been battered, but I believe it is still pure and strong. I sincerely consider the choices he's made, as well as the character he's displayed while making them, to have proven that he is actually superior to many other so called heroes who have never been likewise tested.

(11-28-2015, 12:32 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: This has always been a point of disagreement between the fans who see a police story vs those who see a fantasy story. I give the writers credit for creating a series that has a diverse fan base. I see Nick as a Grimm, doing what a new type Grimm (meaning friends with wesen) can do.

Seeing Nick as a mixed character one who is walking in two worlds as do the wesen. This two world idea makes choices hard because what is right for one world isn't always right for the other. My opinion Grimm show us the gray world where NCIS show us the black and white world, but we must remember Gibbs did kill the killer of his family a little on the "Grimm" side. Just my opinion only.

(11-28-2015, 09:20 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Well, I've officially unfollowed "Grimm" on Facebook and Twitter. Judging from how much "Nickalind" they've been trying to shove down our throats, they're clearly getting desperate.

(11-28-2015, 09:20 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Well, I've officially unfollowed "Grimm" on Facebook and Twitter. Judging from how much "Nickalind" they've been trying to shove down our throats, they're clearly getting desperate.

(11-30-2015, 04:41 AM)Nickster Wrote: This is exciting news!

Where is the Nickalind at?!

(11-30-2015, 04:41 AM)Nickster Wrote:

(11-28-2015, 09:20 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Well, I've officially unfollowed "Grimm" on Facebook and Twitter. Judging from how much "Nickalind" they've been trying to shove down our throats, they're clearly getting desperate.

This is exciting news!

Where is the Nickalind at?!

(11-30-2015, 09:36 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Relooking at @irukandji start to the thread. Her question as I see it does a Adalind relationship with Nick work with all their past. In season 1 to 4 no way as I see it, that being said looks like the writers and now building a understanding between them that may go either way.

They have shown that Nick and Adalind can talk about the past mistakes and the upbring. I'm not sure where the writers are going how they may work this but for now I can see it working.

As do the have anything but their son that is what the writers are working on now. We still have a lot of questions.