Are Grimms Cancer to the world?

[irukandji]

So maybe natures ratio was like just saying 1 Grimm per 100 wesen. See what I'm getting at?

You're saying then that there are approximately 20,000 grimms roaming around the Portland area?

You know that isn't what I'm saying I was just point out we have no idea what nature see as a ratio of Grimms to wesen, who's to say not 1 to 2,000,000.

Agree to disagree. I see only one grimm in the Portland area and that's Nick.

---

But the discussion isn’t about a specific character, it’s about an entire species, and a personal point of view might enhance or contradict but it won’t alter the show’s predetermined foundation. Grimm was rooted in the supernatural fairytale genre, and didn’t employ science and evolution to validate the creation or extinction of any species. I wasn’t dismissing the need or interest in exploring uncharted avenues, only that those discussions don’t fit within the parameters set by the creative team and can’t be forced into fitting the show’s method of storytelling.

I got it. There's no arguing with that the way G&K wrote it, so that's the way it is. I was merely trying look at something different here.

[dicappatore]

So maybe natures ratio was like just saying 1 Grimm per 100 wesen. See what I'm getting at?

You're saying then that there are approximately 20,000 grimms roaming around the Portland area?

You know that isn't what I'm saying I was just point out we have no idea what nature see as a ratio of Grimms to wesen, who's to say not 1 to 2,000,000.

If the population of Portland is around 2, 000,000 to one Grimm might just be so, excluding Trubel. But the writers never told us how much of the population of Portland is Wesen. Fore sure it’s not all 2 million inhabitants. I figure 20% of the population, at least. Still a lot. Just goes to show you how awesome one Grimm can be!

[Robyn]

I got it. There's no arguing with that the way G&K wrote it, so that's the way it is. I was merely trying look at something different here.

Not at all. The show presented the Grimm species as elite, superior, and necessary for human existence. Even BC preferred an alliance with Grimm rather than eradicate them. The HW/BC storyline poked large holes in the premise that human survival is dependent on Grimm, but it didn’t suggest nature was targeting Grimm for extinction.

Your theory “in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness,” and my theory that the first Grimm was a genetic anomaly, are interesting concepts to explore as alternative science based theories, but they don’t align with the show’s supernatural fairytale theme about an elite group of warriors who are vital to human survival.

[irukandji]

I got it. There's no arguing with that the way G&K wrote it, so that's the way it is. I was merely trying look at something different here.

Not at all. The show presented the Grimm species as elite, superior, Grimm, but it didn’t suggest nature was targeting Grimm for extinction.and necessary for human existence. Even BC preferred an alliance with Grimm rather than eradicate them. The HW/BC storyline poked large holes in the premise that human survival is dependent on

Your theory “in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness,” and my theory that the first Grimm was a genetic anomaly, are interesting concepts to explore as alternative science based theories, but they don’t align with the show’s supernatural fairytale theme about an elite group of warriors who are vital to human survival.

I'm still not following your train of thought here, Robyn. On the one hand, you state grimm evolution is an interesting concept to explore. On the other you state it doesn't align with the show's supernatural fairytale. How does a person explore a concept about the characters without bringing the story into it?

Just as a sideline here, what you say below was not the original post:

“in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness,”

Here is the very first, original post that brought up the cancer of the earth phrase and asked the questions:

Yes but what "horror" exactly is it that these people see? Are they psychotic and so turn that psychosis into a fairytale where they become the hero and kill indiscriminately? I just don't buy that every single wild grimm roaming the earth just "happens" upon a wesen committing such horrendous acts that he/she immediately has to step in and save the day. I even tried looking at it from a nature perspective, that these people are put upon the earth to keep wesen from overrunning it. But that doesn't seem to be the case either because wesen are fruitful and multiplying and grimms seem to be rarer and rarer. Is that because nature is slowly weeding them out? Are they like a cancer on the earth?

Not long ago you yourself brought up a discussion about Kelly and asked the question, "Did Kelly leave Nick to pursue Grimm duties because she was a bad mother or because she was compelled by intrinsic Grimm nature?"

Like the evolutionary discussion, whether or not Kelly is a bad mother does not align with the show's supernatural fairytale theme. Nick was going to become a grimm regardless. Yet it made for an interesting discussion. I can't see where such a discussion can take place without the story/characters coming into it. It would be a boring discussion otherwise. But I don't for a moment believe that any of us has the power to actually force a discussion into the storyline. It's impossible.

I may be completely misunderstanding what you're saying here so I would be great if you could clarify.

[eric]

One Grimm can keep a lot of wessen in order so that they don't dominate all the humans. See the world of Z, it could use a few Grimms.

Did Nick cause the Z's extinction?

Z appears to have been some sort of demon, a spirit, not sure how spirits can go extinct. We also don't know where he came, was he some sort of invasive species. If there were more of his type in the alternate world, his position as head tormentor will be filled. There are a lot of invasive animals that could go extinct and the local ecology would improve--wild horses in the west, fire ants in the south, zebra shells in the Great Lakes, rats in many islands around the world.

[irukandji]

[quote='eric' pid='60558' dateline='1500738691']
Did Nick cause the Z's extinction?
Z appears to have been some sort of demon, a spirit, not sure how spirits can go extinct. We also don't know where he came, was he some sort of invasive species. If there were more of his type in the alternate world, his position as head tormentor will be filled. There are a lot of invasive animals that could go extinct and the local ecology would improve--wild horses in the west, fire ants in the south, zebra shells in the Great Lakes, rats in many islands around the world.

You know, I'm not so sure of that, eric. Demons generally don't need a stick to wield their power. When I first saw all of him in the alternate mirror dimension, I took him for a grimm. I don't know why, but he just didn't seem a demon to me. I had wondered if perhaps he was one of the original 7 grimm knights who managed to fake his death and live on to an extreme age.

[Robyn]

I'm still not following your train of thought here, Robyn. On the one hand, you state grimm evolution is an interesting concept to explore. On the other you state it doesn't align with the show's supernatural fairytale. How does a person explore a concept about the characters without bringing the story into it?

Just as a sideline here, what you say below was not the original post:

“in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness,”

Here is the very first, original post that brought up the cancer of the earth phrase and asked the questions:

Yes but what "horror" exactly is it that these people see? Are they psychotic and so turn that psychosis into a fairytale where they become the hero and kill indiscriminately? I just don't buy that every single wild grimm roaming the earth just "happens" upon a wesen committing such horrendous acts that he/she immediately has to step in and save the day. I even tried looking at it from a nature perspective, that these people are put upon the earth to keep wesen from overrunning it. But that doesn't seem to be the case either because wesen are fruitful and multiplying and grimms seem to be rarer and rarer. Is that because nature is slowly weeding them out? Are they like a cancer on the earth?

Not long ago you yourself brought up a discussion about Kelly and asked the question, "Did Kelly leave Nick to pursue Grimm duties because she was a bad mother or because she was compelled by intrinsic Grimm nature?"

Like the evolutionary discussion, whether or not Kelly is a bad mother does not align with the show's supernatural fairytale theme. Nick was going to become a grimm regardless. Yet it made for an interesting discussion. I can't see where such a discussion can take place without the story/characters coming into it. It would be a boring discussion otherwise. But I don't for a moment believe that any of us has the power to actually force a discussion into the storyline. It's impossible.

I may be completely misunderstanding what you're saying here so I would be great if you could clarify.

The show didn’t present Kelly’s mothering skills one way or the other. Nick simply accepted that she did what was necessary as a Grimm and was relieved she was alive, and later commented to Adalind that he had a normal childhood up until his parents died. I questioned whether Kelly’s decision to pursue Grimm duties was a compelling force she couldn’t resist or a bad mother who preferred the Grimm lifestyle to motherhood.

Again, I’m not resisting the discussion. Only that a scientific approach of nature systematically targeting Grimm for extinction doesn’t align with the show’s presentation of Grimm as an essential force against Wesen. The show referred to Grimm as dwindling in numbers once in the pilot, but not that they were becoming unnecessary in the continual war against Wesen. If anything, it was the opposite. From the first to the final episode Grimm where hailed as the ultimate superior species tasked with saving the world and were feared, hated, and/or revered by all.

I quoted part of your response to jsgrimm45 in post #23

Actually my post was questioning if, in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness.

I don’t disagree with the theory Grimm may have outlived their usefulness, and think it’s more in line with what G & K actually delivered with their haphazard action driven storytelling. That Bud would idolize Nick makes sense. He’s the weaker of his species and Nick was the hero who stood up to the bullies. But for someone like Meisner to aggressively pursue Nick as vital to HW’s cause doesn’t make sense. Nick didn’t attempt to thwart the uprising or BC’s influence in his own city, much less the world. Nick’s interest in BC was a personal response to a personal attack. Technically Nick didn’t defeat BC, that was accomplished by a stick and a pissed off little girl, he was just given credit for BC’s defeat in Portland.

But regardless of my interpretation of events, the show presented Grimm as the only force capable of ensuring human survival and that Grimm were still actively combatting Wesen in the future.

[irukandji]

I quoted part of your response to jsgrimm45 in post #23
[quote='irukandji' pid='60545' dateline='1500699919']
Actually my post was questioning if, in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness.

I know, I made a mistake. I had forgotten this subject had come up before the above post and didn't realize it until I did a search.

And this is nitpicky, but I'm going to point it out because I think both of you misinterpreted my post.

JS left out a key word just as you did, and that word was the word, "IF".

Your theory “in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness,”

I believe that because that word was left out, now the discussion has turned toward this somehow infringing on the storyline by trying to insert a substory in that was never approached in the series. I am going to say so that the air is cleared here: This was never a theory nor was it intended to be.

I still don't understand why continuing to state what we all know about a show that has been cancelled has anything to do with the thread, but thanks for trying to explain.

[dicappatore]

You’ll seem to forget, Grimms weren’t the only force keeping Wesen in check. Grimms were more of an operational force keeping Grimms in check. The more strategic force worldwide was the Wesen Council that did more policing of the Wesen world worldwide.

I recall a few episodes trough the series where Rosalee reported inconsistencies to Wesen behavior in more than one occasion to the council. I am sure she wasn’t the only one making calls to them throughout the world. One of the first main objective of BC was to eliminate the Wesen Council

If Grimms were a cancer. It was a cancer that was killing Wesen and for me being a Kehrseite, Grimms are a good cancer. IMO, the bigger cancer to the Wesen community was the Wesen Council.

[Robyn]

I quoted part of your response to jsgrimm45 in post #23
[quote='irukandji' pid='60545' dateline='1500699919']
Actually my post was questioning if, in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness.

I know, I made a mistake. I had forgotten this subject had come up before the above post and didn't realize it until I did a search.

And this is nitpicky, but I'm going to point it out because I think both of you misinterpreted my post.

JS left out a key word just as you did, and that word was the word, "IF".

Your theory “in the natural world, grimms are being weeded out because they've outlived their evolutionary usefulness,”

I believe that because that word was left out, now the discussion has turned toward this somehow infringing on the storyline by trying to insert a substory in that was never approached in the series. I am going to say so that the air is cleared here: This was never a theory nor was it intended to be.

I still don't understand why continuing to state what we all know about a show that has been cancelled has anything to do with the thread, but thanks for trying to explain.

Proposing an if scenario is offering a theory, or conjecture if you prefer, based on available facts. We know all the facts that will be disclosed about the Grimmverse.

Replacing all the characters and relocating the setting to a different time and place, wouldn’t change the core of the show as long as a Grimm remained at the center of the story. But once a theory or conjecture doesn’t have at least one Grimm as the essential component, it’s no longer a show about Grimm.

I think G & K established Grimm as an essential component to a show about Grimm in the role of hero, but not to the idea that human or world survival depended on Grimm. They really screwed up with their Wesen uprising and BC’s political coup in Portland. A least some level of world governments were shown to know about Wesen and were equipped to deal with an uprising and/or political coup. And that brought the essentialness of Grimm into question. But I don’t think G & K had any intention of offering up that question, they just wanted to tell their cool Wesen uprising story and ignored that it contradicted the foundation of their predetermined Grimmverse - that the current Grimm/Wesen conflict was the same as 800 years ago.