(05-19-2015, 08:19 AM)LisaMVA Wrote:(05-19-2015, 07:39 AM)Tokens210 Wrote:(05-18-2015, 08:53 PM)irukandji Wrote: 1. I can't remember if this happened or not, but did he bring Hank over to talk to Juliette? In all honesty, I don't know the best way to tell her about it. It just seemed strange to me that he took a while to confide in her.
2. Can you recall if Nick ever tried to get to the heart of why Juliette refused him? As I said in my previous post, I didn't think the first proposal was made under the best of circumstances and their relationship was obviously strained. It seems like if Nick ignored that and then proposed again, Juliette would still refuse. Of course, it's not all Nick's fault either. Juliette could have brought out her reasons rather than simply stating one wedding's enough.
Tokens, some of my above post was directed to Belle. Sorry about that, I didn't expect you to have to respond again. That aside, you brought up something very interesting that caught my eye. Here's the snippet:
Quote:(even tho its actually Adalind to directly blame and both him and juliette a bit since they accepted taking the potion without knowing what may happen)
3. This is actually a very good point. Do you have any thoughts on what they might have done rather than take the potion?
1. Im pretty sure there was 2 times but i deff. recall atleast one specific time that Nick was actually trying to tell her but when she looked at him and smiled he couldn't do it,
my guess here is he knew how she would respond just like everyone else including himself did about, thinking said persons just crazy
and i suppose he could have brought hank in on it as well but my whole point was it wont really matter who's telling you, the person you love, a friend, when they say monsters are real
and nicks job is to kill them you'd have to think their crazy
for me with the whole "Grimm" secret it seemed(to me atleast) Nick wasn't trying to ever intentionally hid it from her rather figure out a way to word it and having evidence and Monroe ready to show her the proof, the Grimm's even in the series are fairy tales so you'd have to assume Nick's crazy and he found old fairy tale books that support his crazy
even hank and wu responded this way, its usually not till they see Monroe or Bud Woge that they actually believe, and as most Wesen say Woging in front of a plain old human is kinda a big deal for them (i can only assume it would be similar to the first time someone were to see someone else naked, need to trust the person and be willing or else itll be super uncomfortable even then probably still a little uncomfortable at first since they have no idea how the person going to react)
2. It is somewhat strange Nick didn't chase after a reason on his 2nd and 3rd proposals, on the second he accepted 1 wedding is enough as a reason which i don't think he should have, that couldn't have really been her reason and he probably knew it, I actually don't remember Juliette giving him and answer on the 3rd proposal at all which is kinda mean, if im recalling it correctly that is
But i see it as, when Juliette went into a coma we learned her and nick were seeing each other 3-4 years before the show was taking place, so by the end of season 4 it would have been 7-8 Years they were together, i don't feel like nick should have needed to chase the answers, and realistically 1 wedding is enough isn't an answer its an excuse
so yea they could both have a part of the blame but id have to lay more on Juliette for not speaking up even tho there was plenty of chances for her to, a proposal isn't really super easy for most guys to do and getting shot down 3 times i can only imagine would break his heart and make him feel like a child cause its totally out of his control that she says no over and over
3. This one comes down to Writing for me again, Juliette is the one who made the Final decision to give nick his "Grimm" back, but both her and Nick were forced into said decision
Elizabeth was about to leave town and was the only person who could make it, and Monroe and Rosalee were being hassled by the Wesenrein
They didn't have time to keep looking for answers and according to some there was none to be found anyway
But all that being said just cause they were forced to make a decision doesn't mean they were forced to give nick his "Grimm" back, they could have said nevermind
this to me is why the writing was to blame, they could have giving them another option later on if they said no, But that would have kinda made Nick character pointless till he got his
power back he would have need to purely rely on Trubel the entire time, which he was already doing up till this point
One way they could have had them say No and still have Nick somehow get his power back would be having nick rely only on Trubel, till she leaves town with josh, then there would have to be many situations when Wesen who know Nick's no longer a Grimm come looking for him, almost killing him, and although they never bring it up
Couldn't Trubel's blood give Nick his powers back? Shes got Grimm blood but from another bloodline so its different
That being said couldnt Trubel have removed Hexenbeast Juliette's powers? Nicks blood wont work cause it was already in Adalind and were being lead to assume Juliette got her powers directly from adalind protecting her from Nick grimm blood but not Trubels
You have explained things very well and rationally. You put a lot of insight and thoughtfulness into your response.
Juliette never "choose" this life; she wasn't born Wessen. I was so mad myself at her actions watching "You Don't Know Jack" that I went back and watched ALL the Grimm episodes from "The Grimm That Stole Christmas."
I do not condone Juliette's actions, but I understand how she got there: all her misery, it was Adeline using Juliette to get to Nick and destroy him. And, Adeline tried to kill Hank....Adeline was a villain from Day 1 and the character I most wanted DEAD. I think people accepted Adeline as the villain and the actress that plays her did a good job with getting most people to hate her.
Now Juliette: the final straw in the coffin: finding out Adeline is pregnant with the child that should have been...hers. And Nick, as weak as he is!--DEFENDS the bitch-witch!--and asks Juliette to "please leave" at the police station. Adeline, working with the Royals, transforms into Juliette, has sex with Nick, and BOOM, he's no more a Grimm. Mission accomplished. But, Monroe and Rosealee need help and Nick wants him Grimm back and faithful stand-by-your-man Juliette agrees to go along with everything, even though Elizabeth warns there could be side effects.
Low and behold, we now have a sweetheart character, the "moral compass" of the show, transformed into an evil Hexenbiest...and no one really show Juliette any true compassion, sympathy or love. She's a problem that needs to be "fixed."
Henrietta said it best: "Nick, you can either kill her. Or you can accept Juliette in her new form and learn how to live and deal with it. After all, she completely accepted you being a Grimm."
BOOM! Spot on.
you make good points as well and i totally agree with many, but with Marriage stuff that was all before Juliette's hexenbist stuff and while her reasoning on the first proposal seemed valid and was actually correct, the 2nd and 3rd must have wrecked nick emotionally he got shot down with an excuse and then nothing on the 3rd one
Agreed he took all her Hexenbiest stuff totally wrong, at the very first time id imagine he can have a pass cause he actuallty thought it wasn't juliette, he even drew his gun on her, he thought he was in danger but after that he couldnt even look at her, really nick?
my only hope on that part is that he's taking the weight of what happened to her solo and its probably killing him inside (the beautiful woman he's lived with and loved is now this and although it's directly Adalind's fault if he would have listened to his aunt, or after the coma not made juliette remember none of it would have happened to her, id only imagine he blames his grimm blood and himself for all of it)
also agreed juliette didnt ask for any of it but then again neither did nick, remember he saw Adalind and it was his first Wesen, he thought he was crazy, even after his aunt told him he still thought he was going crazy, this isnt something hes wanted or asked for but its also something thats hard for him to come back from
i think nick also realized he was only really good as a cop because he had powers he didnt even know about, if you recall in very very early seasons, whenever nick and hank are in the car on a steak out or anything hank always pointed to a good looking girl and said something like what you think shes up to and nick always guessed and it seemed correct
one girl he said was a college student cause he could see the label on the book she had and hank couldn't
another time was the episode with trubel and the girls robbing stores, he knows that lady is meeting her lover and hank says how do you know its not her boyfriend and i forget what he says but nick has a reason to not think that
and i believe i mentioned it above but Nick was willing to totally drop his Grimm powers for Juliette(i personally think he's trying to hard here, neither of them asked for it but since nick has become a grimm, hes been doing good and changing peoples lives for the better, well except his own lol, but to totally change the person you are to please the person you love to me atleast seems to much), we see him tell hank he feels Off and he'd like his powers back but he's not going to and he actually doesn't try, even told Monroe and Rosalee he wasn't going to be a grimm anymore, Monroe and Rosalee keep looking incase he changed his mind
He allowed Juliette to have the Final say in it, and was willing to follow thru no matter what she picked, and as i mentioned above they were forced to decide but not forced on which way, Nick could have helped Monroe and Rosalee as a Cop, Juliette's the one who says, "Im Done, you need to be a Grimm again" when the burning wolf trap is on the lawn
Nick even asked her again if this is what she really wanted to do before she took the potion, so she had plenty of chances to say no, change her mind, or even talk to Nick just talk, i feel like alot of Nick/Juliette's issue came from lack of communication which seems somewhat strange for a couple together so long
i personally feel if Juliette would have said i dont want this Nick would have accepted that and given it all up, thats where i blamed the writing, the way it was written they only had 1 door to go thru to keep the story going and nick needed powers to do so
totally agree with Henrietta and what she says, i actually was sad she died cause i felt she was kinda a mix of evil and good and could probably have been help in alot of stuff later on
but also right before she says that she makes nick make out with her and says "see how easy that was" and "juliette's powers are way beyond me and will only grow stronger"
this doesn't excuse him at all for how he acts to her but you can guess/assume he may have started to fear what shes able to do
also agreed that 1 of the last straws for Juliette was finding out Adalind's Pregnant, but as mentioned in a different thread, Juliette allowed her rage to win (not that i dont blame her,kinda hard to swallow, but actions dont get excused simply cause the person was mad), thinking Nick was picking sides when he asked her not to mess with adalind and to leave when he just found out he's about to have a son by the woman he hates, he has to have really mixed feelings here but pushes it all aside and focuses on the safety his unborn child, cause he now knows Juliette is powerful and she hates adalind as much as him but Juliette cant see this, by this point her rage has built into basically a ticking bomb, we can see this by that fact she burns the trailer directly after, calls to tell nick she did, then says sorry later saying she was so mad she didn't even think about it