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+--- Thread: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like (/Thread-Are-grimms-needed-what-would-a-wesen-world-without-grimms-look-like)
Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - Henry of green - 03-04-2018
Are grimms needed in the world, what do you think the world of Grimm would look like if grimms disappeared completely would there be more violence and carnage from the wesen towards humans, would more humans be forced to learn about dangerous Wesen in order to deal with them the way grimms did. Are grimms infact not needed as I have heard one or two posters saying in the past, do they actually cause more trouble than they are worth, personally I believe they were needed judging by the way the show presented the wesen world. I personally think grimms played a key part in the balancing act between humans and wesen in the Grimm world.
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - irukandji - 03-04-2018
I would say they are not needed. I have a feeling there are a lot more grimms living a relatively normal life than just Rolek.
In the reality of the series, the only two people we've seen immediately embrace the attitudes of a grimm are Nick and Trubel. Nick did so as the result of information he received from his wayward aunt Marie. Many viewers here believe that there is nothing else a person can do when they receive the physical symptoms. But that's based solely on Nick. Nick had the physical symptoms, but he also apparently couldn't find anything in his life of equal or greater measure, not being a detective, not having a life with Juliette, not being financially stable, and not having any outside interests.
I don't fault Trubel as much because she was led into the grimm life by both Juliette and Nick. She was never given any other alternatives. And again, most viewers feel that grimms don't have any other options.
However, we find out at the end of the series that Nick and Trubel are related. Is it likely that the Nick and Trubel's genetic makeup forced them toward the grimm life, while someone like Rolek's genetic makeup enabled him to steer away from it?
It's very likely if there's a Rolek out there, who never went into the grimm way of life, then there are probably hundreds of thousands more who managed to ignore it as well.
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - Robyn - 03-04-2018
Looking at it within the confines of the show, Portland wasn’t under siege by violent Wesen before Nick became a Grimm. BC was a global assault that was neutralized in a short timeframe by a rather small government black ops response without the world of humans becoming aware of Grimm and Wesen existence.
I don’t consider Grimm an unnecessary force, but I don’t think the show was successfully convincing that the world would fall into chaos without Grimm. Especially after S5 established that human governments were aware of Wesen and had the means to effectively combat them if necessary. And it certainly didn’t help that HW’s Hexenbiest fighting machine failed to take down a powerful BC leader or that Nick avoided involvement until it became a personal battle.
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - eric - 03-04-2018
I think one reason there might be a larger population of wessen in Portland than is normal could be because there is something about Portland that appeals to them. There is a higher percentage of liberals in California than Nebraska, which has a higher percentage of conservatives, for example. Maybe the weather is more suited to them, maybe the nearby forests give them more a chance to roam free. One Blutbad moved there and passed the word around about how good it was. In the show Portland is shown as a place where weird is more acceptable than say Butte. Once the wessen learned there was a good Grimm in town old habits started to change--the hippo lady in Seven Year Itch knew there was a Grimm, and he didn't have to be feared. By controlling the bad wessen the good wessen lived in less fear than before--Bud's group, for example. A world without Grimms would mean that the good wessen would always fear the bad ones, with a good Grimm in town the good ones had someone they could call on.
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - dicappatore - 03-07-2018
Grimms were needed in pre-modern time since the world was divided by small tribes, kingdoms and natural boundaries, oceans, rivers, mountains deserts, ect.. There was no global economy or communication. Looking at the tid-bits of information we got from the show, Grimms were more of a local factor in the control and suppression of the Wesen roaming the earth.
In the past, Grimms did not discriminate on which Wesen were aggressive or passive. You were a Wesen? You were killed, no and, if's or buts. What was different from the Grimm we got to know, such as Nick and Marie or Rolek was the ability for them to pass on the passive Wesen and focus their decapitating tendencies on the "BAD WESEN" or just stay out their way.
As time went on into Modern Times, as we saw a decrease in Grimm populate, and at the same time, a bridging of economies and communication adding to a shrinking world. The Wesen themselves saw a potential of things getting out of hand and formed their own "Wesen Council".
IMO, the reduction of Grimms around the globe was offset by the assassins the Wesen Council employed. As much as some contributors opposing Nick, hate to admit, but most likely. The Wesen Council was responsible for more Wesen deaths than Nick was that were not related to a crime he had to investigate. "PLEASE NOTE", I am referring to Wesen demised by Nick, that were non-crime investigations.
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - irukandji - 03-10-2018
(03-04-2018, 03:43 PM)eric Wrote: I think one reason there might be a larger population of wessen in Portland than is normal could be because there is something about Portland that appeals to them. There is a higher percentage of liberals in California than Nebraska, which has a higher percentage of conservatives, for example. Maybe the weather is more suited to them, maybe the nearby forests give them more a chance to roam free. One Blutbad moved there and passed the word around about how good it was. In the show Portland is shown as a place where weird is more acceptable than say Butte. Once the wessen learned there was a good Grimm in town old habits started to change--the hippo lady in Seven Year Itch knew there was a Grimm, and he didn't have to be feared. By controlling the bad wessen the good wessen lived in less fear than before--Bud's group, for example. A world without Grimms would mean that the good wessen would always fear the bad ones, with a good Grimm in town the good ones had someone they could call on.
I'm curious. What exactly is the difference between a so called "good grimm" and a "bad grimm"? Marie told Nick to hunt the bad ones and I am paraphrasing here. Supposedly he does just that. But in doing so, is Marie then considered a "bad grimm"? What about Trubel? Is she really hunting only bad wesen? And how about Kelly?
Are they "bad grimms" in relation to Nick's "good grimm"?
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - eric - 03-10-2018
(03-10-2018, 08:04 AM)irukandji Wrote:I know I wii regret this, but what episodes of the TV show GRIMM did you miss? "BAD GRIMM" - ones who hunted all wessen. "GOOD GRIMM" - ones who hunted only wessen who were a danger to other wessen and humans. If that is a hard concept, please send copy of your first grade transcript. Have a nice day.(03-04-2018, 03:43 PM)eric Wrote: I think one reason there might be a larger population of wessen in Portland than is normal could be because there is something about Portland that appeals to them. There is a higher percentage of liberals in California than Nebraska, which has a higher percentage of conservatives, for example. Maybe the weather is more suited to them, maybe the nearby forests give them more a chance to roam free. One Blutbad moved there and passed the word around about how good it was. In the show Portland is shown as a place where weird is more acceptable than say Butte. Once the wessen learned there was a good Grimm in town old habits started to change--the hippo lady in Seven Year Itch knew there was a Grimm, and he didn't have to be feared. By controlling the bad wessen the good wessen lived in less fear than before--Bud's group, for example. A world without Grimms would mean that the good wessen would always fear the bad ones, with a good Grimm in town the good ones had someone they could call on.
I'm curious. What exactly is the difference between a so called "good grimm" and a "bad grimm"? Marie told Nick to hunt the bad ones and I am paraphrasing here. Supposedly he does just that. But in doing so, is Marie then considered a "bad grimm"? What about Trubel? Is she really hunting only bad wesen? And how about Kelly?
Are they "bad grimms" in relation to Nick's "good grimm"?
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - Robyn - 03-10-2018
I agree the show presented there was something about Portland that attracted Wesen, good and bad. But Portland benefiting from having a Grimm resident doesn’t necessarily establish a worldwide need for Grimm. Even on the show, Portland wasn’t a hotbed of vicious, unexplainable attacks/deaths that drew unusual attention before Nick became a Grimm. And there’s that pesky fact that world governments were aware of Wesen existence and capable of combating them if/when necessary.
To me, the existence of Grimm for Wesen is much like the existence of law enforcement for us. Those intent on committing violence aren’t swayed to exercising better judgment because of Grimm or law enforcement. And those wanting a peaceful society don’t need the threat of Grimm or law enforcement because their nonviolent behavior stems from their personal aspirations for themselves, their families, and their communities rather than the risk of repercussions. For the most part, Grimm in the fictional world and law enforcement in the real world lessen personal responsibility for one’s own safety.
After the stores were vandalized and a storeowner murdered in Wesen Nacht, Wesen residents swarmed The Spice Shop because Rosalee had a direct line to Nick, the Grimm. It would be much the same in our local communities - expecting law enforcement to protect us from further violence and eradicate the source of that threat.
I’m not suggesting the show failed to establish that Grimm played a vital role in it’s fictional world, but that how the creative team played out HW vs. BC brings Grimm as an absolute necessity into question. The S5 arc presented that only a few Grimm actively participated in the fight against BC. Trubel worked with one and heard about another. So to me, world governments were able to annihilate the BC insurgent in a rather short timeframe with little Grimm participation. But that the government created/funded HW would have been as effective without Grimm had a much higher percentage of the Wesen population risen up isn't as obvious.
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - irukandji - 03-10-2018
(03-10-2018, 08:30 AM)eric Wrote: I know I wii regret this, but what episodes of the TV show GRIMM did you miss? "BAD GRIMM" - ones who hunted all wessen. "GOOD GRIMM" - ones who hunted only wessen who were a danger to other wessen and humans. If that is a hard concept, please send copy of your first grade transcript. Have a nice day.
Please don't get yourself into a frenzy over a simple question. I only asked because I keep reading these remarks about Nick being a good grimm. I see from your response then that Marie, Kelly and Trubel would be considered bad grimms.
By the way, I understood Nick to be a cop who was assigned cases not someone who deliberately hunted bad wesen. I'm wondering what episodes of Grimm you watched.
RE: Are grimms needed what would a wesen world without grimms look like - FaceInTheCrowd - 03-10-2018
The original role of grimms was that of overseer. Royalty, as early as ancient Rome, used wesen as soldiers and managed them with Grimms. After the seven grimm knights split from the royals, they apparently became roving bounty hunters, with the majority of their clients still nobility but lesser local ones, and the royals replaced grimms with hundjagers (the verrat).
The real buffer that stood between wesen and kehrseite was the Wesen Council, not grimms.
We discovered in S06 that a wesen was one of Portland's founders, so the combination of our "Keep Portland Weird" culture and our proximity to preserved wilderness as draws for wesen goes way back. Or maybe behind the scenes wesen influence is actually at the root of it...