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+--- Thread: When did Adalind Redeem herself? (/Thread-When-did-Adalind-Redeem-herself)
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - Robyn - 01-04-2018
Adalind’s objectives in S4 were to successfully barter Nick’s protection in exchange for a suppressant for Juliette and get Diana back by circumventing Kenneth’s plan while under Nick’s protection. Adalind wasn’t concerned, and rightly so, in helping Nick and his people unless helping them benefited her & the children.
Adalind’s measure of integrity in S5 & S6 depends on whether her loyalty to Nick and his people is considered sufficient to qualify her as a good person. I personally don’t. Adalind was loyal to and helped the man she was in love with, just as he was to loyal to and helped Renard in S1. The only core difference in Adalind’s behavior is that the recipient of her loyalty changed.
I’m not questioning the better choice between Nick & Renard. Clearly, Nick seeing Adalind as the mother of his child provided her a better environment than Renard who saw her as a weak woman who could be manipulated into a henchman. I’m only referring to Adalind’s motivation - Nick and the benefit to her children was the by-product, or, her children and a relationship with Nick was the by-product.
I do think the show’s intent was to present Adalind as becoming a better person. But, the show is bias in it’s delivery because it’s prime objective is to showcase Nick as the hero and protagonist of it’s interpretation of good. And that’s where I think Adalind’s evolution becomes murky. It’s difficult to distinguish Adalind’s individual evolution into a better person and loving mother from Adalind’s evolution into Nick’s love interest.
I don’t think the show even hinted that Adalind used magic to prevent the Hexenbiest from negatively influencing her. But I can understand why irukandji would suggest the possibility. The show had Adalind frantic in S5 over the Hexenbiest’s ability to control and influence her. The problem with Adalind’s out of the blue panic was that the show didn’t substantiate it in prior seasons. Henry’s right, Adalind was just as bad and perhaps worse while human and completely free of the Hexenbiest influence. In contrast, the Hexenbiest returning after Diana’s birth didn’t have any negative influence or control over Adalind’s newfound determination to be a good mother.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - rpmaluki - 01-04-2018
The show made a point to highlight that Adalind was out of options in terms of suppressing or even permanently getting rid of the hexenbiest when she was with Rosalee. It's odd to say she cast a spell offscreen that gave her what she wanted and yet on screen there was nothing she could do to "fix" the hexenbiest problem. Her desperation was palpable for several episodes, if such a solution as @irukandji is suggesting was a possibility, surely the show wouldn't have kept it off screen indefinitely in some form or another.
This show deals with every plot point at face value, what you see is what you get. Look at the stick issue and the daft way they handled it when when all of S5 it was a big secret and with one line from Adalind in S6 it's no longer this major issue between them, in fact it sounded like she'd known about the stick for a while even though it was never seen on screen. The point is that if something is relevant to the story, the writers wouldn't keep it secret for long. Adalind’s fear of being the big bad hexenbiest prompted her secrecy and that was the issue between her and Nick, the reason for their trust issues and they dealt with that when she eventually confessed to Nick.
The show told us Adalind couldn't do away with her hexenbiest, nor could she suppress it, at least not without the primary ingredient of an old hexenbiest corpse and the show never changed this stance. If there's some third option of dampening the negative effects of the show, they clearly missed the opportunity to tell us between episodes 4x17 and 5x19 when it was relevant to the story for either Juliette or Adalind.
It turns out to lose the hexenbiest completely, all Adalind had to do was cross over to the other side and perhaps leave it there when she crossed back like Juliette/Eve did.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - Robyn - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 07:09 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: This show deals with every plot point at face value, what you see is what you get. Look at the stick issue and the daft way they handled it when when all of S5 it was a big secret and with one line from Adalind in S6 it's no longer this major issue between them, in fact it sounded like she'd known about the stick for a while even though it was never seen on screen.I agree. But references to off-screen events, especially ones viewers considered pivotal to the characters/storyline, lends to speculation of other possible off-screen events. To me, Nick keeping the stick’s existence from Adalind because he didn’t trust her was a huge relationship issue to resolve with her one line reference to learning about the stick earlier in S6. Had Nick suddenly said something in S5 that established he knew the suppressant had worn off and was okay with it would have been as strange as S6’s Adalind knows about the stick reveal.
(01-04-2018, 07:09 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: It turns out to lose the hexenbiest completely, all Adalind had to do was cross over to the other side and perhaps leave it there when she crossed back like Juliette/Eve did.That’s interesting. I hadn’t considered Adalind’s lack of reaction until now. She was surprised Juliette wasn’t a Hexenbiest, but didn’t give it much thought beyond that. Maybe because at that point, being a Hexenbiest wasn’t a big deal to Nick & his friends, which made it a non issue for Adalind. Actually, Nick had embraced Adalind’s Hexenbiest by then even utilizing her skills to his advantage.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - irukandji - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 05:54 AM)Henry of green Wrote: I give you a list of proof of Adalinds good deeds all these things happened on the show what your saying about Adalind castin spells didn’t you made it up.
Of course I made it up. Isn't that what I've been saying all along? It's speculation just like it's speculation that Adalind ended up being redeemed in the eyes of the scoobies.
The good deeds you've mentioned aren't really all that spectacular. I think it's great that she helped Eve, but what else was she going to do? Leave her down there? You mentioned she apologized to Eve. Okay, well she should have and it was a nice thing to do. Does it make her spectacular in the eyes of the scoobies? Why would it? They didn't witness it and even if they did, they'd no doubt agree that she owed it to Eve.
Aside from that, isn't a little late to apologize anyway? She's in essence apologizing to Eve, not Juliette.
As for going through the mirror, I believe it had been communicated that Zerstorer was equivalent to the end of the world. Adalind's help isn't spectacular, it actually would be expected.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - rpmaluki - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 08:21 AM)Robyn Wrote:No doubt. However the point to my post isn't so much about the issues between them but rather the writers and their candid way of dealing with their plot points. I mentioned the stick issue not to shine a spotlight to Nick and Adalind's relationship but rather the fact that the writers specifically wrote that single line from Adalind to cap a particular plot point. Since Juliette became a hexenbiest, there has been greater emphasis on getting rid of the hexenbiest and we were specifically told that was no longer possible to do so in the same way Nick did it in S1, so a lesser option that wasn't so well known was presented in the form of a suppressant.(01-04-2018, 07:09 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: This show deals with every plot point at face value, what you see is what you get. Look at the stick issue and the daft way they handled it when when all of S5 it was a big secret and with one line from Adalind in S6 it's no longer this major issue between them, in fact it sounded like she'd known about the stick for a while even though it was never seen on screen.I agree. But references to off-screen events, especially ones viewers considered pivotal to the characters/storyline, lends to speculation of other possible off-screen events. To me, Nick keeping the stick’s existence from Adalind because he didn’t trust her was a huge relationship issue to resolve with her one line reference to learning about the stick earlier in S6. Had Nick suddenly said something in S5 that established he knew the suppressant had worn off and was okay with it would have been as strange as S6’s Adalind knows about the stick reveal.
In 5x12, Adalind was desperate to be rid of the hexenbiest whether permanently or another suppressant and worked with Rosalee to find something, anything that would help her do away with her wesen nature no matter for how long and the writers specifically told us that there was nothing Adalind could. She believed she was at a dead end and had to resign herself to being a hexenbiest without any possibility of changing that.
Suggesting that Adalind did something even off screen doesn't match with the events on the show as seen between 5x12 and 5x19 after her confession and eventual leaving of the loft. This situation isn't at all like the stick secret issue because even though they had the conversation offscreen, there's onscreen confirmation of it taking place with that one line from Adalind. There's nothing of the sort hinting or confirming Adalind casting some spell on herself when the focus was still on her fear in turning bad towards the end of S5.
I think Nick's eventual acceptance of her hexenbiest (from before her confession) went a long way in alleviating most if not all of her fears about what she might do as a hexenbiest by the beginning of S6. On whatever level Nick had accepted Adalind for what she was and hadn't act as she had feared. Instead of growing apart, they grew closer. I think that is what helped Adalind stay the course.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - Hell Rell - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 06:42 AM)Robyn Wrote: Adalind’s objectives in S4 were to successfully barter Nick’s protection in exchange for a suppressant for Juliette and get Diana back by circumventing Kenneth’s plan while under Nick’s protection. Adalind wasn’t concerned, and rightly so, in helping Nick and his people unless helping them benefited her & the children.
Adalind’s measure of integrity in S5 & S6 depends on whether her loyalty to Nick and his people is considered sufficient to qualify her as a good person. I personally don’t. Adalind was loyal to and helped the man she was in love with, just as he was to loyal to and helped Renard in S1. The only core difference in Adalind’s behavior is that the recipient of her loyalty changed.
I’m not questioning the better choice between Nick & Renard. Clearly, Nick seeing Adalind as the mother of his child provided her a better environment than Renard who saw her as a weak woman who could be manipulated into a henchman. I’m only referring to Adalind’s motivation - Nick and the benefit to her children was the by-product, or, her children and a relationship with Nick was the by-product.
I do think the show’s intent was to present Adalind as becoming a better person. But, the show is bias in it’s delivery because it’s prime objective is to showcase Nick as the hero and protagonist of it’s interpretation of good. And that’s where I think Adalind’s evolution becomes murky. It’s difficult to distinguish Adalind’s individual evolution into a better person and loving mother from Adalind’s evolution into Nick’s love interest.
I don’t think the show even hinted that Adalind used magic to prevent the Hexenbiest from negatively influencing her. But I can understand why irukandji would suggest the possibility. The show had Adalind frantic in S5 over the Hexenbiest’s ability to control and influence her. The problem with Adalind’s out of the blue panic was that the show didn’t substantiate it in prior seasons. Henry’s right, Adalind was just as bad and perhaps worse while human and completely free of the Hexenbiest influence. In contrast, the Hexenbiest returning after Diana’s birth didn’t have any negative influence or control over Adalind’s newfound determination to be a good mother.
The two main difference that jump out to me between the later seasons Adalind as compared to the early season one is she no longer hungered for payback or craved power.
Adalind spent a good portion of her screentime in late season 1 through mid season 2 getting revenge against Nick and Renard and lamenting the loss of her powers and trying to get them back. She was no longer concerned with either starting with the birth of Diana and that carried through to her pregnancy with Kelly. Neither one of those self-destructive parts of her personality reappeared in the final two seasons. It actually happened earlier than that, even before Adalind was starting to be considered one of the good guys.
Even her bad deeds weren't done out of malice. She degrimmed Nick in order to see Diana again and she went to Nick and Juliette's house to get Juliette to give her info that will help her get Diana back. The only time Adalind used her powers in season 5 were in self-defense of herself after she came out to help Rosalee without any powers, to show Nick that her powers had returned, and to stop Renard from lusting after her.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - irukandji - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 09:46 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Suggesting that Adalind did something even off screen doesn't match with the events on the show as seen between 5x12 and 5x19 after her confession and eventual leaving of the loft. This situation isn't at all like the stick secret issue because even though they had the conversation offscreen, there's onscreen confirmation of it taking place with that one line from Adalind. There's nothing of the sort hinting or confirming Adalind casting some spell on herself when the focus was still on her fear in turning bad towards the end of S5.
I disagree. There is no harm in speculation and no one here is forced to believe it. The fact, however, remains. Adalind was a character who used magic, prior to and during the time she lived with Nick. She traded a magic spell for protection. There's no reason why it can't be speculated that she may have used magic to enhance her chances of remaining with Nick. It has been suggested that the relationship between Nick and Adalind occurred too smoothly, even for a fantasy show. She could have used magic to smooth their relationship.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - Hell Rell - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 12:05 PM)irukandji Wrote:(01-04-2018, 09:46 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Suggesting that Adalind did something even off screen doesn't match with the events on the show as seen between 5x12 and 5x19 after her confession and eventual leaving of the loft. This situation isn't at all like the stick secret issue because even though they had the conversation offscreen, there's onscreen confirmation of it taking place with that one line from Adalind. There's nothing of the sort hinting or confirming Adalind casting some spell on herself when the focus was still on her fear in turning bad towards the end of S5.
I disagree. There is no harm in speculation and no one here is forced to believe it. The fact, however, remains. Adalind was a character who used magic, prior to and during the time she lived with Nick. She traded a magic spell for protection. There's no reason why it can't be speculated that she may have used magic to enhance her chances of remaining with Nick. It has been suggested that the relationship between Nick and Adalind occurred too smoothly, even for a fantasy show. She could have used magic to smooth their relationship.
Could Adalind have used her abilities for this purpose? Possibly, but that's speaking purely about her magical abilities.
Did Adalind use her abilities for this purpose? Absolutely not! The fact, however, remains that there was nothing on the show indicating Adalind did this so the speculation should end immediately. There is no doubt this would've been revealed on the show at any point if it were true. There wasn't even anything behind the scenes that hinted at this so any suggestion that Adalind did this is pure fan-fiction.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - Henry of green - 01-04-2018
Adalind and Rosalee already had a conversation both decided it was impossible to get an enhancement or another suppressant without a dead hexenbiest.
(01-04-2018, 12:23 PM)Hell Rell Wrote:(01-04-2018, 12:05 PM)irukandji Wrote:(01-04-2018, 09:46 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Suggesting that Adalind did something even off screen doesn't match with the events on the show as seen between 5x12 and 5x19 after her confession and eventual leaving of the loft. This situation isn't at all like the stick secret issue because even though they had the conversation offscreen, there's onscreen confirmation of it taking place with that one line from Adalind. There's nothing of the sort hinting or confirming Adalind casting some spell on herself when the focus was still on her fear in turning bad towards the end of S5.
I disagree. There is no harm in speculation and no one here is forced to believe it. The fact, however, remains. Adalind was a character who used magic, prior to and during the time she lived with Nick. She traded a magic spell for protection. There's no reason why it can't be speculated that she may have used magic to enhance her chances of remaining with Nick. It has been suggested that the relationship between Nick and Adalind occurred too smoothly, even for a fantasy show. She could have used magic to smooth their relationship.
Could Adalind have used her abilities for this purpose? Possibly, but that's speaking purely about her magical abilities.
Did Adalind use her abilities for this purpose? Absolutely not! The fact, however, remains that there was nothing on the show indicating Adalind did
this so the speculation should end immediately. There is no doubt this would've been revealed on the show at any point if it were true. There wasn't even anything behind the scenes that hinted at this so any suggestion that Adalind did this is pure fan-fiction.
Hell Rell, As usual the voice of reason I totally agree the theroy is totally without merit . It’s fine for Au fanfction but has zero legitimacy on the show.
RE: When did Adalind Redeem herself? - rpmaluki - 01-04-2018
(01-04-2018, 12:05 PM)irukandji Wrote:Speculation is just that, it's not fact as presented on the show. Just because she is a hexenbiest who's cast spells on the show, doesn't mean she cast this specific one that you're insisting took place offscreen. The show/writers explicitly said Adalind couldn't suppress or do away with her hexenbiest the third time round and went to the trouble of showing her and Rosalee researching and coming up with nothing.(01-04-2018, 09:46 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: Suggesting that Adalind did something even off screen doesn't match with the events on the show as seen between 5x12 and 5x19 after her confession and eventual leaving of the loft. This situation isn't at all like the stick secret issue because even though they had the conversation offscreen, there's onscreen confirmation of it taking place with that one line from Adalind. There's nothing of the sort hinting or confirming Adalind casting some spell on herself when the focus was still on her fear in turning bad towards the end of S5.
I disagree. There is no harm in speculation and no one here is forced to believe it. The fact, however, remains. Adalind was a character who used magic, prior to and during the time she lived with Nick. She traded a magic spell for protection. There's no reason why it can't be speculated that she may have used magic to enhance her chances of remaining with Nick. It has been suggested that the relationship between Nick and Adalind occurred too smoothly, even for a fantasy show. She could have used magic to smooth their relationship.
You are contradicting the events of the show by elevating your conjecture that's without factual evidence, not even a simple line from the characters to pass off as having occurred. It's not enough to say she's a hexenbiest, therefore she did it when the show says differently.
I realise how futile this entire exchange is. I have no interest in changing your opinion. I was just stating what happened on the show vs what didn't. Go ahead and speculate away.