Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - Printable Version +- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum) +-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe) +--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions) +--- Thread: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? (/Thread-Did-Bad-Writing-Doom-this-Show) Pages:
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Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - wesen - 09-17-2017 I keep reading about how the writing/direction of the show contributed to the decline in ratings/viewership. I just wanted to compare it with another favourite show of mine, The Walking Dead. Like Grimm, it has its fair share of critics, especially with the development of its characters, plot holes/inconsistencies, and many more. I think as early as season 2, many were already complaining about how boring the show was becoming, that it was too long and dragging/depressing. Rick's wife was also disliked, and many cheered when she died. There was plenty of criticism against Rick as well, even with Carl. But despite all the faults of the show, it still remains as popular as ever. So what gives? RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-17-2017 "Bad" is in the eye of the beholder, but since it's unlikely that the actors, set designers and other production team members suddenly lost all their talents and skills, if you decided the series was going downhill the people you would most likely want to blame for it would be the producers, because they're the ones deciding which writers and stories to use. RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - wesen - 09-17-2017 Quote:So we're here to help. There are a bunch of reasons your show might have been canceled, but these seven are the most likely. https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/5/16/15633120/why-tv-shows-get-canceled-ratings-arent-everything RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - syscrash - 09-17-2017 IMO with each episode intended to be based on a fairy tale. The concept should have made for a never ending amount of episodes. The problem is the back stories are as important as the main story. Even though there was no limit to main stories. The back stories started to run into trouble. The story of the keys being the reason for conflict started to get old. They moved on the Diana combined with the Royals being the catalyst. They did a reboot and brought in HW against BC. That was a mistake. It eliminated the need for Nick the Grimm. They just could not assimilate his purpose into the story line. The other things I saw is they could not make up their minds as to who the characters where. The biggest problem is the women where never allowed to over shadow the men. They also wanted to promote gender typical roles. While trying to show the women as independent. That is where the conflict started. Take Adalind she started off as a very crafty hexenbiest. Someone who seemed to be scheming on everyone, even Sean. When it started to been seen that Adalind was better the Sean, they turning her into someone being used by Sean. With Juliette Even though they made her a professional. They never let use forget she is Nick girl friend first. Her purpose was to support Nick. This was made really evident when she became a hexenbiest. Most of the comments are how Juliette did not support Nick and help him accept her. Even thought it was Juliette who was going through the change. Taking a look at how the show ended with Nick and Adlind forming this stereotypical family is a unrealistic out come. It is unrealistic considering Adalind is a hexenbiest with magic. Diana also is and extremely powerful hexenbiest. It has always amazed me how anyone would think the Adalind and Diana character would ever work in a family situation. This idea that they would just not use their abilities is like someone rejecting who they are be it cultural and religious. It reminds me of those who object to people using happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Even Eve who was designed to be extremely powerful was always shown assisting a man. Bitsie described the character as someone that did not need a man. This ideology lead to Eve not even being interested in men. the same was true with Trubel. It is though the writer can not combine a strong independent female with a character that has a sexual appetite. When they do show sexuality outside of a relationship. It is as a weapon. It is the stereotype that women use sex to get what they want. It is inevitable that the show would end because of this conflict of wanting to address the current perception of women and their place in the world. While not stepping on the old gender ideology that society tries to hold women to. Some simple changes could have helped. They should have left Adalind as the crafty hexenbiest that Sean called on when he needed something done. They should have had him hire her instead of controlling her. Juliette should have from the time she was captured become part of the team. The cases where she had expertise she should have been allowed to take lead and Nick to follow. They could have still had the break between Nick and Juliette when she became a hexenbiest. There was more then enough reasons. The biggest being Nick's guilt of being the cause of the change. It could also be that Juliette as a hexenbiest choose to go it alone to learn what it really means to be wesen. This could have then lead to her learning about HW and going into training. As a member or HW she have been made a leader. Make her equal to meisner. Being as powerful as she was. She should have been able to command Nick and Sean. Having ADalind once she had a child choose to no longer be a hexenbiest for hire would be find. To even have her go from being independent to wanting to compromise so she could include Nick into the life of her son. But to make her dependent on Nick was wrong. She is a lawyer and a hexenbiest with magic, why would she ever be dependent. RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - rpmaluki - 09-18-2017 (09-17-2017, 11:31 PM)syscrash Wrote: The cases where she had expertise she should have been allowed to take lead and Nick to follow. They could have still had the break between Nick and Juliette when she became a hexenbiest. There was more then enough reasons. The biggest being Nick's guilt of being the cause of the change. It could also be that Juliette as a hexenbiest choose to go it alone to learn what it really means to be wesen. This could have then lead to her learning about HW and going into training. As a member or HW she have been made a leader. Make her equal to meisner. Being as powerful as she was. She should have been able to command Nick and Sean.Considering the nature of their relationship from the beginning, where she was left too long on the outside and was used more as a "prop" when Adalind victimised her, I doubt this would happen on a show called Grimm. You're right about HW making Nick redundant almost but then they kept Nick independent and still had HW rely on Nick even though they were a world wide organisation and didn't need him. The writers could have have changed the DNA of the show but the last season, particularly the last three episodes showed why the show was called Grimm. Something similar happens on Agents of SHIELD. It's an ensemble cast where almost everyone one plays an active role, they have individual arcs, the main character (Coulson) feels like he's a supporting act to the "Daisy show" because he's often in the background compared to the others (similarly to how some view Nick) but the writers ALWAYS circle back to Coulson taking the reigns in saving the day (he doesn't do it alone but there's no mistaking that the focus lies heavily on him even if his appearance is as ordinary as they come compared to those powered or especially gifted in some form or another), none more so than in the last episode of S4. As fans we want to the story to go a certain way because we see that as a natural progression but not all shows are so inclined to move completely away from the main character and it would never have happened with Nick. It didn't matter how uninspired he may have seemed as a character compared to the others, they all still revolved around him as the center of the show. RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - syscrash - 09-18-2017 What they could have done was make HW an overall controlling group. Then make Grimm in charge of their own jurisdictions. The same structure the BC was promoting. It would help answer the question of are there other Grimm. How do they work. The tried to do this with the resistance. But that story was a throwback to aristocracy rule. HW could have been a replacement for that. It could have also been used to explain how Grimm's like Kelly where able to survive. They where paid by HW to be Grimms. I do agree shield became all about Daisy. Like the Eve character they did not know where they wanted to go with the character. One minute they are the hunter the next they are being hunted. They start with the character's powers being over the top to then becoming a victim. Writers seem to have a problem of maintaining the balance of predator and prey. The also seems to be a problem when dealing with characters that have powers. They constantly want to showcase the powers. But with each episode they need to make it bigger and better. This causes and out of balance situation which means the villain have to also increase in power and abilities to create a believable threat. The problem this make the other character seem out matched. RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - Hell Rell - 09-18-2017 Grimm was never a prestigious show but I do think bad writing doomed it. A show with bad writing can only survive if the spectacle overshadows the bad writing. Grimm simply wasn't that flashy of a show, something I liked about it, to hide the bad writing. I agree about what they did with the women in the show being a contributing factor as well. Everyone here knows I constantly bash GoT. I being completely sincere when I say the writing on that show isn't any better than Grimm's but the spectacle is still amazing. I don't think it's a good show but viewers don't want to miss the spectacle and discuss it the next day because it would make them feel left out. It being on HBO which is known for prestigious adult television helps as well and makes the writing seem adult rather than juvenile which it really is. Back to Grimm, it tried to become something it wasn't ready for at all. The introduction of HW and BC made it feel as if the show wanted to have some sort of global feel where it's only local in reality. Nick and company worked best when taking care of neighborhood problems because they weren't capable of doing more. The scene of Nick going to HW's base felt all types of wrong. I view Nick as more Daredevil than Iron Man. Nick making a huge difference in the world outside of his reputation as an atypical Grimm was laughable. They utterly failed in the attempt to broaden the scope of the show. A few posters have already pointed out how Nick only took on BC when it became personal rather than because of the danger they posed to the world or even Portland itself. I agree about the need to make powers bigger and better is a huge problem as well. Juliette becoming super powerful certainly didn't help. She was shown capable of taking care of all of their enemies on her own. She just needed someone to point her in the right direction. Seeing the others in battle with her only felt like they would get in her way. Wonder Woman needed more help than Juliette did in a fight. RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-18-2017 It was especially galling when you consider that Nick's reputation as an atypical grimm was already world-changing. He was regularly blowing apart the traditional schisms and antagonisms between different kinds of wesen, between wesen and grimms and even between wesen, grimms and royals. What happened was the the show fell prey to the irresistible urge TV seems to have to make their shows "relevant," and tell stories "ripped from the headlines." It seldom results in very good TV, and in the case of a series that started out as an escapist fantasy, the result was even worse. RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - syscrash - 09-18-2017 It almost seemed like the created the HW vs BC story line to give Eve something to show how powerful she was. This is shown by them starting off by her taking out over 20 wesen in less then a minute. It was after that it seemed like the writers set the bar so high they had no place else to go. Even that event suffered from a lack of budget that would have allowed them to show how she took out that many wesen. For her to continue to cause that much damage would have taken a lot more special effects then they where budgeted. That is why until the end we say her doing push up. opening doors and morphing facial body parts. All things that take very little special effects. The only large special effect they did with Eve was the fight with conrad. Lets compare season 5 with prior season. The beast fight that must have cost a fortune. Even the fight with Alicia's husband must have cost a lot. I also think one thing that might have changed what they did. After the Alicia fight scene Bitsie has said she liked it but it was a lot of work and she was sore for days. Then you had the fight with Nick where again she got hurt. After that one I think that was the end of the fight scenes she was willing to do. But buy then the Eve story line had already been planned. That was just speculation on my part. But watching season five it just seemed like what they did was not what they planned. What does not make sense is how Bitsie showed she was working out for the part of Eve. Yet there was nothing physical for her to do. That is also why I think the planed physical was more then she was willing to do. The other thing that makes me think the HW vs BC story did not go the way they wanted is after one season they completely dropped. The key story line, the Royals story line both went over several seasons. The entire zestora story line had no point nothing in the past lead up to it. They implied that Diana and by extension Eve had a connection to the other world. They never explained why. There where comments suggesting that the contract had something to do with the connection. But nothing in the show even tried to imply that connection. They seemed to just drop that line of thought. Might be the backlash of ADalind signing a contract to sell her child to regain her powers. To continue talking about the contract would have made it hard to project the she is a good mother making Nick want her to raise their child. In a way the way the show was going I am kind of glad they ended the show before the completely destroyed it trying to find something that worked. Like is said the HW vs BC supporting the Eve character which could have also showcased the Trubel character. was a good idea. It could have even be used to setup for a spin off and to explain what a grown Dianna, Kelly and the triplets life would be. The HW vs BC story line made more since then Nick as a cop trying to solve problems with wesen. RE: Did Bad Writing Doom this Show? - dicappatore - 09-18-2017 (09-18-2017, 10:52 AM)syscrash Wrote: Bitsie work out regiment for season 5 was not for any physical fight scene that were planned for her to do. If so, they can use stunt people. Her work-out for season 5 was so she could look more FIT for her new style of wardrobe, Black Tight Leather outfits. This is not an opinion or speculations. It came right out of Elizabeth Tulloch mouth on the interview she did and are readily posted on You Tube. I guess we can chalk up another case of opinions being distributed in these posts as facts. |