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+--- Thread: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience (/Thread-Why-Juliette-as-a-character-didn-t-click-with-the-audience)
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - Robyn - 09-17-2017
I got the impression that the actor was playing her role the way she was directed to. Juliette wasn't flamboyant or demonstrative. She was more reserved, but still sensitive. Adalind, in comparison, was flamboyant and demonstrative. She said whatever she was thinking, at times to her own detriment. And whatever emotion she was feeling was clearly expressed unless she was intentionally masking it out of necessity. Adalind had been in Nick’s house for one day when she went off on him about the FBI showing up, until realizing she needed to rein it in.
One characterization isn’t necessarily better than the other, they’re just different. Nick didn’t appear to prefer Adalind’s more animated expressions, and actually, Adalind mellowed out to be more in line with Nick’s ho-hum demeanor.
I thought Juliette was boring in general, but then, I thought Nick and team Grimm were boring in general. So six of one, half a dozen of the other. Hells bells, I thought Meisner was boring in S5. Maybe there’s something in the Portland water supply. *grin*
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - dicappatore - 09-17-2017
(09-17-2017, 06:02 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:(09-17-2017, 05:55 PM)eric Wrote: According to the regular rules, the chef could never be convicted of anything. The fungus would not affect anyone besides the blutbad. During the trial the chef would have eaten some fungus, humans who ate would have thought it was great. Not guilty.
There wouldn't even have been arrest and trial. An analysis of the mushrooms would have shown them to be harmless to humans. No charges. Then the blutbads would have taken things into their own hands and killed the chef and the entire restaurant staff, the bauerschweins would have retaliated by killing more blutbads, and there would have been an all-out war between them on the streets of Portland.
(09-17-2017, 05:55 PM)eric Wrote:(09-17-2017, 05:30 PM)wesen Wrote:According to the regular rules, the chef could never be convicted of anything. The fungus would not affect anyone besides the blutbad. During the trial the chef would have eaten some fungus, humans who ate would have thought it was great. Not guilty. Once found not guilty, he could have set up a chain of upscale eateries with a lot of mushroom treats. If Nick had not forced him to sign a confession, Nick's only choices would have been to kill him or let Monroe do it. Some may think Nick was corrupt, but to let a killer run free would have been amoral, letting people die because of rules that applied in the human world and not in his new real world. THAT would have been corrupt.(09-17-2017, 05:20 PM)irukandji Wrote:(09-17-2017, 05:01 PM)wesen Wrote:(09-17-2017, 04:51 PM)irukandji Wrote: Can we really blame the character's faults on the actress?Not all of it of course, but I think the actor/actress does contribute to the likeability of the character. Take for example Adalind, she was a cartoony villain at the beginning but I still found her interesting, even though I disliked her character. Then when she was toned down in season 5-6, I still liked her far more than I did Juliette. Despite her toned down state, she still came across as warm and affectionate, and I could believe that she really did fall in love with Nick and would remain loyal to him, even after 20 years. Renard also had many faults, but I felt Sasha's innate charisma and acting skills made me like him despite his role as a villain. Also Monroe, who was supposed to be side kick to Nick, I actually liked more than Nick himself. Maybe it wasn't supposed to happen, but at one point I actually preferred seeing more of Monroe's scenes than even Nick's. Hank and Wu also weren't as fully fleshed as some of the other characters, but I still enjoyed watching them on screen. I think Eve was actually better to watch than Juliette. At least it was understandable why she was always so expressionless and unemotional.
I would have to disagree. I see Nick's character as a corrupt cop who, deep down inside, has nothing but contempt for law enforcement. I get that from his character in Grimm. The fact that I see it on the screen is a testament to the man's acting ability, not that he's actually some kind of rebel in real life.
Contempt for law enforcement? Really? That's definitely different from the Nick I saw in the show. Nick went against the rules of being a cop because the rules/law didn't address magic or wesen. Nick tried to follow the rules as a cop at the beginning, but in the end he knew it wasn't enough to bring justice or protect the innocent from being attacked/killed by wesen.
Imagine what would have happened to the couple that glowed blue in the night, ripping out cow’s ovaries and having a baby? If Nick had followed the law? They would have been extinct, at least those three Wesen were concerned, as Monroe and Rosalee believed that type of Wesen were.
The show I saw, Nick saved many innocent lives, Humans and Wesen. And he killed off many that deserved it and would have skated if he followed the same law. If that’s “corrupt”? Then give me more!
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - brandon - 09-18-2017
I think that telling "cop corrupt" is an exaggeration.
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - Devegs - 09-18-2017
I give Nick a pass because he was in Grimmverse and the same ole' rules don't apply in his world that apply in this world. It might have been set in Portland USA but it is not Portland USA as we know it. At some point in Grimmverse when society catches up and creates laws that are geared to prevent those situations unique to wesen crimes then I'll withdraw my pass.
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - Hexenadler - 09-18-2017
(09-17-2017, 07:35 PM)Robyn Wrote: One characterization isn’t necessarily better than the other, they’re just different. Nick didn’t appear to prefer Adalind’s more animated expressions, and actually, Adalind mellowed out to be more in line with Nick’s ho-hum demeanor.
This is another reason why I think fans who believe "Nadalind" is superior to "Nickette" are misguided. Adalind's behavior was heavily reformatted to be more in line with Nick's sensibilities. After the Hexenbiest suppressant wore off, she became a meeker, more compliant housewife; Juliette 2.0, in other words. Being less of a "bitch" is one thing, but the writers downright nurtured Adalind.
In contrast, try to imagine how wild S5 might have been if Nick and Juliette had stayed together, regardless of her transformation. Even a chaotic and pseudo-sadomasochistic relationship would have been far more fascinating than what we got, which was basically a dull reprisal of the Nick/Juliette scenario throughout seasons 1 and 3, except with a different actress in the role.
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-18-2017
Once the decision was made to write Claire Coffee's pregnancy into the show as Adalind having Nick's baby, Juliette and Adalind more or less swapped personalities, and then became exaggerated versions of each other. This might have worked better if they'd explained it as the unexpected side effect of both of them using the Verfluchte Zwillingsschwester.
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - irukandji - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 10:02 AM)brandon Wrote: I think that telling "cop corrupt" is an exaggeration.
Not for Nick it isn't. In my opinion, of course.
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - wesen - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 01:31 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote: Once the decision was made to write Claire Coffee's pregnancy into the show as Adalind having Nick's baby, Juliette and Adalind more or less swapped personalities, and then became exaggerated versions of each other. This might have worked better if they'd explained it as the unexpected side effect of both of them using the Verfluchte Zwillingsschwester.I don't really think they swapped personalities. Juliette like I said was cold and aloof, and more demanding of Nick than adalind. Adalind seemed more affectionate, warm and wiling to compromise with Nick. I don't know if it's down to how the actresses interpreted their characters, but if juliette had been more like adalind in season one, I think people would be more sympathetic to her character.
(09-18-2017, 01:16 PM)Hexenadler Wrote:(09-17-2017, 07:35 PM)Robyn Wrote: One characterization isn’t necessarily better than the other, they’re just different. Nick didn’t appear to prefer Adalind’s more animated expressions, and actually, Adalind mellowed out to be more in line with Nick’s ho-hum demeanor.
This is another reason why I think fans who believe "Nadalind" is superior to "Nickette" are misguided. Adalind's behavior was heavily reformatted to be more in line with Nick's sensibilities. After the Hexenbiest suppressant wore off, she became a meeker, more compliant housewife; Juliette 2.0, in other words. Being less of a "bitch" is one thing, but the writers downright nurtured Adalind.
In contrast, try to imagine how wild S5 might have been if Nick and Juliette had stayed together, regardless of her transformation. Even a chaotic and pseudo-sadomasochistic relationship would have been far more fascinating than what we got, which was basically a dull reprisal of the Nick/Juliette scenario throughout seasons 1 and 3, except with a different actress in the role.
I don't think Adalind became Juliette 2.0. I could still differentiate between the two characters, I found Adalind to be more affectionate and loving towards Nick than Juliette was. What you saw was compliant I saw as someone who was willing to understand Nick and compromise with him. There was acceptance between them that I found lacking with N and J.
If your scenario had played out between Juliette and Nick , it would just be Renard 2.0 in his interactions with both Adalind and Juliette. I would think it would go against Nick's character to have that kind of chaotic sadomasochist relationship with Juliette, he's too much of a gentleman/strait-laced. Nick as a lover strikes me as someone who would be passionate but tender/gentle with the person he loves, he'd probably call sex making love. I don't think there's anything kinky about him at all.
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 05:03 PM)wesen Wrote: I don't really think they swapped personalities. Juliette like I said was cold and aloof, and more demanding of Nick than adalind. Adalind seemed more affectionate, warm and wiling to compromise with Nick. I don't know if it's down to how the actresses interpreted their characters, but if juliette had been more like adalind in season one, I think people would be more sympathetic to her character.
In the beginning of the series, Juliette was a reactive character. Most every situation she was involved in was something that happened to her. I think that was what Bitsie meant when she described Juliette as "passive." Adalind, OTOH, was proactive. She got into situations through her own actions, even if those actions were sometimes on the instruction of others. Hardly anything ever just happened to her.
As the series progressed, Juliette gained knowledge that enabled her to react to situations more assertively, but she was still just reacting. The turning point came when she decided she was going to kill Adalind, and from that point on, she was proactive and nothing ever just happened to her again, as either Hexenette or as Eve. Adalind, OTOH, reacted to Juliette's attempt on her life by seeking protection, and from that point on she remained reactive until the end of the series.
RE: Why Juliette as a character didn't click with the audience - wesen - 09-18-2017
(09-18-2017, 06:13 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:(09-18-2017, 05:03 PM)wesen Wrote: I don't really think they swapped personalities. Juliette like I said was cold and aloof, and more demanding of Nick than adalind. Adalind seemed more affectionate, warm and wiling to compromise with Nick. I don't know if it's down to how the actresses interpreted their characters, but if juliette had been more like adalind in season one, I think people would be more sympathetic to her character.
In the beginning of the series, Juliette was a reactive character. Most every situation she was involved in was something that happened to her. I think that was what Bitsie meant when she described Juliette as "passive." Adalind, OTOH, was proactive. She got into situations through her own actions, even if those actions were sometimes on the instruction of others. Hardly anything ever just happened to her.
As the series progressed, Juliette gained knowledge that enabled her to react to situations more assertively, but she was still just reacting. The turning point came when she decided she was going to kill Adalind, and from that point on, she was proactive and nothing ever just happened to her again, as either Hexenette or as Eve. Adalind, OTOH, reacted to Juliette's attempt on her life by seeking protection, and from that point on she remained reactive until the end of the series.
I think Adalind was proactive when she decided to leave Nick and take Kelly with her to live with Renard, it was a foolish plan but it showed that she still did things independently from Nick. Also, after she told Bonaparte the whereabouts of Nick's loft, she asked Diana to help inform Nick that Bonaparte was coming for him at the loft. She was also willing to jump into the mirror world to help save Juliette, even though she knew that there was a chance she couldn't come back again. I think Adalind became less willing to be involved/proactive because of her children. To me, they were her main priority, Nick came second. I have no doubt that if Nick and the others hadn't been there to help protect Diana and Kelly from Z, Adalind would have taken things into her own hands and did all she could to either fight off Z or be on the run with her kids.