+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Grimm Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Discussions)
+--- Thread: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? (/Thread-What-would-kelly-s-reaction-to-baby-kelly-existence-be-if-she-was-still-alive)
RE: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? - irukandji - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 09:13 PM)wesen Wrote:(09-13-2017, 09:00 PM)irukandji Wrote:(09-13-2017, 05:22 PM)wesen Wrote: Thanks for that. I guess we can include the deleted scenes as canon then, and they could still serve to explain the characters' actions/motivations in the scenes that haven't been omitted.
Why would anyone want to include deleted scenes? They were never part of what was shown on national television. Can you really make an argument out of a scene that most people never viewed?
Because if they were only deleted due to time constraints, they could still be used to show what the creators original intentions are for the characters. They could also provide much clearer explanation to the characters motivations and help provide further context to their actions.
I think that's a great explanation for a person viewing it on their own who's willing to keep an open mind. If you were debating an issue on the forum with a deleted scene as part of the story, I don't see how that could work.
RE: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? - wesen - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 09:19 PM)irukandji Wrote:Because it still makes sense and just gives a clearer picture of how the characters feel and interact with one another. One of the deleted scenes in season 5 was an extended scene of Adalind and Nick having sex in the loft. It was obviously cut due to time constraints, but it still supports the writers intentions and gives a clearer insight as to how passionate and intense their love making was.(09-13-2017, 09:13 PM)wesen Wrote:(09-13-2017, 09:00 PM)irukandji Wrote:(09-13-2017, 05:22 PM)wesen Wrote: Thanks for that. I guess we can include the deleted scenes as canon then, and they could still serve to explain the characters' actions/motivations in the scenes that haven't been omitted.
Why would anyone want to include deleted scenes? They were never part of what was shown on national television. Can you really make an argument out of a scene that most people never viewed?
Because if they were only deleted due to time constraints, they could still be used to show what the creators original intentions are for the characters. They could also provide much clearer explanation to the characters motivations and help provide further context to their actions.
I think that's a great explanation for a person viewing it on their own who's willing to keep an open mind. If you were debating an issue on the forum with a deleted scene as part of the story, I don't see how that could work.
RE: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? - dicappatore - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 09:34 PM)wesen Wrote:(09-13-2017, 09:19 PM)irukandji Wrote:Because it still makes sense and just gives a clearer picture of how the characters feel and interact with one another. One of the deleted scenes in season 5 was an extended scene of Adalind and Nick having sex in the loft. It was obviously cut due to time constraints, but it still supports the writers intentions and gives a clearer insight as to how passionate and intense their love making was.(09-13-2017, 09:13 PM)wesen Wrote:(09-13-2017, 09:00 PM)irukandji Wrote:(09-13-2017, 05:22 PM)wesen Wrote: Thanks for that. I guess we can include the deleted scenes as canon then, and they could still serve to explain the characters' actions/motivations in the scenes that haven't been omitted.
Why would anyone want to include deleted scenes? They were never part of what was shown on national television. Can you really make an argument out of a scene that most people never viewed?
Because if they were only deleted due to time constraints, they could still be used to show what the creators original intentions are for the characters. They could also provide much clearer explanation to the characters motivations and help provide further context to their actions.
I think that's a great explanation for a person viewing it on their own who's willing to keep an open mind. If you were debating an issue on the forum with a deleted scene as part of the story, I don't see how that could work.
When we see 2 or 3 actors, we don’t see the 30 or 40 crews and extras on set. On one interview, DG told us why they had to burn down the trailer. Every time they shot a scene in it, we dint see the dozen sweaty crew members behind the camera in such a cramped area. Deleted scene aren’t shot then discarded because they wanted to change the story line. The script is where the story line changes take place.
Then the scenes are shot. The script cannot predict the exact time of a scene. It’s an estimation. Then what ends up on the cutting floor is edited to fit the time slot. An issue that is not present in making a movie.
The production is not going to pay for actors and crew to shoot other possible options of the story just so they can change the storyline by deleting scenes. If you can find a producer that will pay for scenes to be shot just for trying other possible scenarios of the storyline. I will show you a producer out of work.
This is why deleted scenes are important, even if sometimes are part of a longer scene that was cut shorter. Like the scene when Renard is in bed with a Royal from Europe and he sees her face change into Juliette.
RE: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? - FaceInTheCrowd - 09-13-2017
(09-13-2017, 09:10 AM)wesen Wrote: Can I ask, since you seem to have some inside scoop in the way things work behind scenes, were the deleted scenes deleted because the show creators wanted to change the storyline or was it due to time constraints?
There's a general one script page per screen minute rule that almost never comes in exactly right. So scripts are usually written with extra scenes in case a scene or two isn't as long on screen as expected, and during edit the director decides which "extra" scenes to omit. Most of the time the deleted scenes are the ones that have the least impact on the story, but sometimes a scene is deleted because it might cause viewers to expect the story to go places it isn't intended to go.
I have worked on some other productions where script revisions got handed out every day because they didn't like the scenes they got the day before. I never saw this happen on a Grimm shoot, but then again I was there for only a few episodes a season.
RE: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? - wesen - 09-14-2017
(09-13-2017, 10:12 PM)dicappatore Wrote:(09-13-2017, 09:34 PM)wesen Wrote:(09-13-2017, 09:19 PM)irukandji Wrote:Because it still makes sense and just gives a clearer picture of how the characters feel and interact with one another. One of the deleted scenes in season 5 was an extended scene of Adalind and Nick having sex in the loft. It was obviously cut due to time constraints, but it still supports the writers intentions and gives a clearer insight as to how passionate and intense their love making was.(09-13-2017, 09:13 PM)wesen Wrote:I think that's a great explanation for a person viewing it on their own who's willing to keep an open mind. If you were debating an issue on the forum with a deleted scene as part of the story, I don't see how that could work.(09-13-2017, 09:00 PM)irukandji Wrote: Why would anyone want to include deleted scenes? They were never part of what was shown on national television. Can you really make an argument out of a scene that most people never viewed?
Because if they were only deleted due to time constraints, they could still be used to show what the creators original intentions are for the characters. They could also provide much clearer explanation to the characters motivations and help provide further context to their actions.
When we see 2 or 3 actors, we don’t see the 30 or 40 crews and extras on set. On one interview, DG told us why they had to burn down the trailer. Every time they shot a scene in it, we dint see the dozen sweaty crew members behind the camera in such a cramped area. Deleted scene aren’t shot then discarded because they wanted to change the story line. The script is where the story line changes take place.
Then the scenes are shot. The script cannot predict the exact time of a scene. It’s an estimation. Then what ends up on the cutting floor is edited to fit the time slot. An issue that is not present in making a movie.
The production is not going to pay for actors and crew to shoot other possible options of the story just so they can change the storyline by deleting scenes. If you can find a producer that will pay for scenes to be shot just for trying other possible scenarios of the storyline. I will show you a producer out of work.
This is why deleted scenes are important, even if sometimes are part of a longer scene that was cut shorter. Like the scene when Renard is in bed with a Royal from Europe and he sees her face change into Juliette.
Very true. Thanks for the explanation. That's why I consider most of the deleted scenes I've seen so far to be canon, they just gave further insight into the development of the characters and their actions.
(09-13-2017, 11:58 PM)FaceInTheCrowd Wrote:(09-13-2017, 09:10 AM)wesen Wrote: Can I ask, since you seem to have some inside scoop in the way things work behind scenes, were the deleted scenes deleted because the show creators wanted to change the storyline or was it due to time constraints?
There's a general one script page per screen minute rule that almost never comes in exactly right. So scripts are usually written with extra scenes in case a scene or two isn't as long on screen as expected, and during edit the director decides which "extra" scenes to omit. Most of the time the deleted scenes are the ones that have the least impact on the story, but sometimes a scene is deleted because it might cause viewers to expect the story to go places it isn't intended to go.
I have worked on some other productions where script revisions got handed out every day because they didn't like the scenes they got the day before. I never saw this happen on a Grimm shoot, but then again I was there for only a few episodes a season.
Thanks for the feedback. Found it interesting and supports my theory that most deleted scenes could be considered as canon, just as long as they don't deviate from what the creaters/director showed onscreen.
RE: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? - Hell Rell - 09-14-2017
(09-13-2017, 09:19 PM)irukandji Wrote: I think that's a great explanation for a person viewing it on their own who's willing to keep an open mind. If you were debating an issue on the forum with a deleted scene as part of the story, I don't see how that could work.
In general, I would agree with you but I think it could work on this forum since the deleted scenes are posted for everyone to see. I still understand if someone doesn't want to consider them as canon but they can help in explaining the writers intentions if they were truly cut for time.
RE: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? - irukandji - 09-14-2017
(09-14-2017, 08:48 AM)Hell Rell Wrote:(09-13-2017, 09:19 PM)irukandji Wrote: I think that's a great explanation for a person viewing it on their own who's willing to keep an open mind. If you were debating an issue on the forum with a deleted scene as part of the story, I don't see how that could work.
In general, I would agree with you but I think it could work on this forum since the deleted scenes are posted for everyone to see. I still understand if someone doesn't want to consider them as canon but they can help in explaining the writers intentions if they were truly cut for time.
The only problem is that with most of these television shows, no one's going to do a commentary on why the scene was deleted. I understood that was the way it was with the deleted scenes in Grimm. So it still comes down to opinion.
RE: What would kelly's reaction to baby kelly existence be if she was still alive? - wesen - 09-14-2017
Found this info:
Quote:In television serials, however, running time becomes an even greater concern because of the strict timeslot limitations, especially on channels supported by advertisements, and there may be only 20 min of actual show per half-hour timeslot. Depending on the station and the particular format of the show, that May or may not include opening credits or closing credits; many ad-supported stations now "squish" the closing credits or force them into a split-screen to show more advertising. Most programs are in either a half-hour or a one-hour timeslot. That forces producers of television serials to break up the acts in a manner that will (hopefully) make the viewer want to continue watching after the ad break and to avoid exceeding the stricter running time limits.
Though the quality of the initial and the final cuts of a film is subjective, a scene or version of a scene in a film may have an adverse effect on the film as a whole. It may slow the film down, provide unnecessary details or exposition, or even explain points that should be implied or said more subtly. It is common to remove such scenes at the editing level, but they may be released on the home video release, as a bonus feature
So basically, deleted scenes would still be considered canon because they mostly stay true to the writers intentions. It would make sense for the network/director to delete the more domestic aspects of Grimm. Their main focus is on WOW (even though I felt they became unnecessary near the end), and adding those extra scenes would go over the running time or didn't add much to the episode.
Quote:Watch a lot of deleted scenes and you’ll see a LOT of important character and plot development that gets left out. It’s surprising, but the movie often turns out a lot smoother without these scenes.http://schneeblog.com/revision-deleted-scenes-and-adaptations/