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+--- Thread: Juliette (/Thread-Juliette)
RE: Juliette - syscrash - 09-26-2014
Being with someone the is not you, you can tell. The is the differance between a hookup and someone you love. With someone you love there are the little things you do that no one else knows. Even if that some one is not acting their normal self (the kink kicks in) you will know the difference. That is juliets point Nick did not know the difference. To him it was like a hookup.
RE: Juliette - Gretel Hanselsister - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 08:46 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: Gretel. I'm a little disappointed at your attitude. It's rather sexist.
Yes, Nick was raped by deception. Jokes aside, men are not all pigs.
When did I say men were all pigs? Ups, didn't mean to
.I don’t say it was Nick’s fault, it was Adalind’s and only Adalind’s.
"Rape" includes physical force, that’s how I understand it, and this did not happen. He was deceived, yes, in a very bad way, and of course he has every right to be really, really pissed. BUT (here’s my "but", and if this makes me sexist, so be it) I can understand that Juliette is pissed, too. Nick is absolutely not the only one who’s been deceived. Adalind had sex with Juliette’s boyfriend in Juliette’s bed, wearing Juliette’s negligee. And in this way it was only possible because of the world they live in because Nick was a Grimm. She was mad at him, but only until she learned about the details. Everybody would have been mad at first, come on!
Juliette: Nick, it wasn’t me.
Nick: Well, it had to have been you. Who else could it have been?
Juliette: -thinking for some seconds- Adalind called me.
Nick: Last night.
Juliette: Today. She wanted to come over, and I told her I was gonna be out.
Nick: She knew you weren’t gonna be home.
Juliette: -mouth open- Oh my god.
Nick: If that was Adalind…
Juliette: Oh, my God, I’m gonna be sick.
later
Nick: Juliette, this is so screwed up.
Juliette: Yeah, I know.
Nick: I would never ever…
Juliette: It’s just this whole life of ours, the way it’s being infected by you being what you are, you know? I don’t know if I can take it anymore.
Nick: Juliette, I was going to propose to you. I had the ring. I was just about to, and that’s when my mom showed up with Adalind and the baby, and…
-Bud interrupts-
See? She’s not mad anymore, she is hurt. She doesn’t even blame Nick, she blames his grimmness. And, yes, she is right! Adalind wouldn’t have had the slightest interest in Nick otherwise.
These dialogues happened only a few minutes after what has happened. I wouldn’t weigh up every word, she is still shocked and has to play her role as maid of honor, so there’s a lot of stress. I can imagine she will be 100% on Nick’s side again when season 4 starts.
For me, the character is not damaged beyond repair.
RE: Juliette - Christian Killian - 09-26-2014
(09-26-2014, 09:54 AM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote:(09-26-2014, 08:46 AM)wfmyers1207 Wrote: Gretel. I'm a little disappointed at your attitude. It's rather sexist.
Yes, Nick was raped by deception. Jokes aside, men are not all pigs.
When did I say men were all pigs? Ups, didn't mean to
I don’t say it was Nick’s fault, it was Adalind’s and only Adalind’s.
"Rape" includes physical force, that’s how I understand it, and this did not happen. He was deceived, yes, in a very bad way, and of course he has every right to be really, really pissed. BUT (here’s my "but", and if this makes me sexist, so be it) I can understand that Juliette is pissed, too. Nick is absolutely not the only one who’s been deceived. Adalind had sex with Juliette’s boyfriend in Juliette’s bed, wearing Juliette’s negligee. And in this way it was only possible because of the world they live in because Nick was a Grimm. She was mad at him, but only until she learned about the details. Everybody would have been mad at first, come on!
Juliette: Nick, it wasn’t me.
Nick: Well, it had to have been you. Who else could it have been?
Juliette: -thinking for some seconds- Adalind called me.
Nick: Last night.
Juliette: Today. She wanted to come over, and I told her I was gonna be out.
Nick: She knew you weren’t gonna be home.
Juliette: -mouth open- Oh my god.
Nick: If that was Adalind…
Juliette: Oh, my God, I’m gonna be sick.
later
Nick: Juliette, this is so screwed up.
Juliette: Yeah, I know.
Nick: I would never ever…
Juliette: It’s just this whole life of ours, the way it’s being infected by you being what you are, you know? I don’t know if I can take it anymore.
Nick: Juliette, I was going to propose to you. I had the ring. I was just about to, and that’s when my mom showed up with Adalind and the baby, and…
-Bud interrupts-
See? She’s not mad anymore, she is hurt. She doesn’t even blame Nick, she blames his grimmness. And, yes, she is right! Adalind wouldn’t have had the slightest interest in Nick otherwise.
These dialogues happened only a few minutes after what has happened. I wouldn’t weigh up every word, she is still shocked and has to play her role as maid of honor, so there’s a lot of stress. I can imagine she will be 100% on Nick’s side again when season 4 starts.
For me, the character is not damaged beyond repair.
As someone who has 4 sisters, a wife, and a daughter (some of which have been raped). Force does not need to be present. Sometimes drugs are used and this matter would fall under that. She is upset and hurt, but Nick was RAPED! Her lack of concern how he feels and her selfish nature comes through. Rape does not require force, it also can take a lack of consent or deception. Nick consented to Juliette and deception was used to make Nick think that. There have been cases where someone takes advantage at a party and wares a masks convincing the victim they are someone else. Later the person with the mask is convicted of rape.
"Most of these men have an image or a myth about rape, that it's some guy in a ski mask wielding a knife," says Lisak. "They don't wear ski masks, they don't wield knives, so they don't see themselves as rapists."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/08/18/339593542/the-power-of-the-peer-group-in-preventing-campus-rape
(09-25-2014, 10:27 PM)Gretel Hanselsister Wrote: @Christian Killian: Welcome to the forum!
Thank you for the welcome. I've never been big into forums but I thought I would give it a go.
RE: Juliette - syscrash - 12-01-2014
three cheers for the writers. They have finally given Juliette a spine. in s6e10 she got on broad with getting Nicks Grimm back. She now seems to be truly part of the scooby gang. She now seems to not reject being part of the wesen world but embarrasses it and wants to do her part. That was a good scene in the Tea Shop, a Grimm, a Wesen, and a pissed off wife with a gun. I know i would not want to enter that shop. The combination worked so well. they need to make a episode where the women ban together to defeat the wesen of the week. You are on the right track with Juliette, add in some self defiance training. We have already seen her fight in "eyes of the beholder". I am waiting for her to grab a wesen and threaten with "you know my boyfriend is a Grimm". fear through association.
The show opened the door for women being able to see wesen (when Nick went to the eye doctor). Work in that Juliette starts to gain the ability to see wessen making her even more empowered to fight wessen. It could be a side effect of her becoming Adalind. Would give her something good to come out of Adalind's intervention. This would leave Hank as the outcast. But it would bring Nick and Juliettes relationship closer. Plus Juliette being able to see wessen would make Nick more comfortable with her being involved. An it does seem the writers are gong to make Juliette more involved. I could even see it being Trubel and Juliette teaming together.
RE: Juliette - Lou - 12-01-2014
I like everything you said but the "finally gave Juliette a spine".
I have been a defender of Juliette since ppl started "hating" her in season 1. so forgive me if i appear to be a little overly defensive here.
but she has not finally gotten a spine. she has shown all kinds of spine ever scince she got her memory back. And before that, well first she didn't have her memory and before that Nick was keeping her in the dark. She knew something was wrong and that put her off- balance.
you said she truly is part of the scooby gang. well I got that feeling back when she left the house with Nick to fight zombies. worked in the spice shop with Monrosalee to create the cure.
You said "add in some self defense training". well what was it when after her house got invaded for the umpteenth time she had Nick get her a gun and teach her how to shoot.
You said you were waiting for her grab a wesson. Already happened. Remember she saved Nick from an ogre so something by throwing a pot of boiling water on it. And she rescued her college friend from her abusive husband by hitting him with a frying pan. And then there was the time she punched the dragon-girl.
Even before that she has shown initiative and curiosity. Remember when she started investigate the hair from the wesson that attacked a horse?
And her acceptance of Monroe, Rosalee, Bud, and Trubel (especially Trubel) only says good things about her character.
In your defense, this was one of the best episodes for Juliette's character. It was also had some of the best dialog the writers had done so far.
Anyway, the Pro-Juliette train has left the station but we welcome you aboard. choo - chooooo.
I don't think the writers are going to have Juliette become part grimm. but there may be side effects from that potion. I'm think she might start seeing through Adalind's or maybe Nick's eyes.
RE: Juliette - busyizzy - 12-01-2014
(12-01-2014, 01:26 PM)Lou Wrote: In your defense, this was one of the best episodes for Juliette's character. It was also had some of the best dialog the writers had done so far.
Anyway, the Pro-Juliette train has left the station but we welcome you aboard. choo - chooooo.
I don't think the writers are going to have Juliette become part grimm. but there may be side effects from that potion. I'm think she might start seeing through Adalind's or maybe Nick's eyes.
I agree with all of your examples, Lou. There is an interesting phenomenon at work here. I alluded to it earlier in my S4Ep6 comments, and it's a matter of perspective.
For some reason, people view the quiet, thoughtful types as weak or lacking a backbone. Juliette's character is not loud, brazen, or in-your-face. She's quiet, thoughtful, and sensitive. This does NOT make her weak. She's actually more like those of us in real-life than ANYONE else on the show, IMHO. However, she gets "it" done...whatever "it" is. She steps up, protects, defends, supports, and provides a unique perspective based on her field/educational area of expertise, etc. She's sassy in a true-to-life way.
I also think she's a great foil for all the characters that are the brash "alpha" types. Her methods may be different, but I think she's a great partner for Nick, caring friend to Monrosalee/Hank/Wu/Bud/Etc., and would be a great mom. Juliette, Hank, and Wu are the only regular human characters on the show. Hank and Wu are men and carry guns every day. I don't think most people view them as weak. I think many people view Juliette as weak because she's quiet and female. It's only since she showed up at the spice shop packing heat that many viewers perked up.
If she's pregnant, and it happened during the body double spell, there may be some interesting character development for Juliette.
I'm on the train with you...as a late comer to this topic thread, I jumped on the caboose!
RE: Juliette - Elkhound - 12-01-2014
(12-01-2014, 12:21 PM)syscrash Wrote: The show opened the door for women being able to see wesen
Erm. . . .it has been made clear that being a Grimm is open to both men and women from the beginning. Aunt Marie? Kelly? Trubel? There have been lady Grimms in the Kessler Archives also. Kelly even said that girls with the Grimm trait tend to come into their power sooner than boys.
There has been no indication that someone who didn't have the Grimm capability at least in potential can be endowed with it artificially. (We don't not that it is NOT possible; we just don't know that it is. And, if it is, why not give the ability to Hank as well?)
RE: Juliette - busyizzy - 12-01-2014
(12-01-2014, 08:26 PM)Elkhound Wrote:(12-01-2014, 12:21 PM)syscrash Wrote: The show opened the door for women being able to see wesen
Erm. . . .it has been made clear that being a Grimm is open to both men and women from the beginning. Aunt Marie? Kelly? Trubel? There have been lady Grimms in the Kessler Archives also. Kelly even said that girls with the Grimm trait tend to come into their power sooner than boys.
There has been no indication that someone who didn't have the Grimm capability at least in potential can be endowed with it artificially. (We don't not that it is NOT possible; we just don't know that it is. And, if it is, why not give the ability to Hank as well?)
Why not give the ability to anyone who is in Nick's sphere so they can support him and protect themselves? After all, anyone who is regularly seen with Nick is probably in someone's (Verrat, Royals, Wesen Council, bad Wesen, Resistance) crosshairs. It would provide a layer of protection so the Grimm's don't have to fly to the rescue each time.
....but then....Nick wouldn't be special, would he?
RE: Juliette - Elkhound - 12-02-2014
(12-01-2014, 08:40 PM)busyizzy Wrote: Why not give the ability to anyone who is in Nick's sphere so they can support him and protect themselves? After all, anyone who is regularly seen with Nick is probably in someone's (Verrat, Royals, Wesen Council, bad Wesen, Resistance) crosshairs. It would provide a layer of protection so the Grimm's don't have to fly to the rescue each time.
....but then....Nick wouldn't be special, would he?
Exactly; being able to endow anybody with Grimm abilities would take away the need for Grimms. If it were possible, it would have been done a long time ago, and everyone--or almost everyone--would be able to see wessen in first-level volge.
RE: Juliette - syscrash - 12-02-2014
When saying juliette should be given the ability to see wesen was based on women already having an extra cone in their eyes (grimms have two) . Then add the body swap, the memory loss, the recovery. Thats a lot of wesen mojo she has indured. All could be reason for her now be able to see wesen. She would not have grimm strength or hearing. Does Trubel have grimm hearing, or is Nick having it the side effect of his zombie romp. He did not have it before then.