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+---- Thread: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea (/Thread-TRUST-and-who-has-it-syscrash-idea)
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - MarylikesGrimm - 12-09-2016
(12-09-2016, 09:58 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-09-2016, 06:05 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:And I disagree with this. I saw plenty of opportunities for Nick to talk to Juliette. He's supposed to be this understanding character. He's gone out of his way to make sure some of the wesen he's encountered don't have to pay for their crimes. He found the time to communicate that to them and made that understood.That is an unfair assumption. Nick was suffering from an immense amount of guilty. It is guilt that drive his irrational position of denial. They only thing that would relieve his conscious of guilt would be to make her not a hexenbiest. Accepting her as a hexenbiest would not relieve his guilt.
Yet when it comes to Juliette, all of the sudden Nick has no capacity for understanding. He refuses to take the time to talk to her and shows extraordinary cruelty by refusing to sleep with her.
What happened to Juliette happened because of Nick. They both knew there might be side effects to the spell. Juliette trusted him enough to take that chance. Nick did not trust her to accept the consequences. He took the position that she needed to be fixed, rather than talking to her about what they should do.
I don't think it's unfair. Nick admitted he was at fault for what happened. As far as suffering from an immense guilt, I never saw that in Nick. I think he took a position of avoidance more than anything else.
I think you are both partly right. Nick was avoiding seeing Juliette (loved leaving messages on the phone) but when he did talk to her the option of her staying a hexenbiest and being part of his life was really not discussed and one reason why this could be he feels guilt and wants to return her to the way she was.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - syscrash - 12-09-2016
Quote:I was remembering the other day, Juliette said she was afraid Nick for he will kill for being a HexenB. how naive could she be? Did that mean that their 7 years together meant nothing?, no trust, no love for her to think of something that rediculous?
what is ridicules is not understanding the fear that Nick the Grimm would kill Juliette the hexenbiest. Even Adalind made the same comment when she got her powers back. Almost every wesen Nick meets fears he will kill them. This has been debated. The fear is not rational thought but instinct. What is not clear, is it learned or hereditary. Because Juliette also had the fear, leads more to it being hereditary.
Quote:Also, Nick tried very very hard to speak with her, called her so many times, she avoided as much as she could. She first went to Renard, Then Henrietta, then the Spice shop till she saw Nick there. It was so childish of her not to believe that 7 years of her relationship meant something. Th next thing we see her do is taunt Nick.
Nick has only wanted to cure her never has he made an effort to accept her. Even the first time in the spice shop. He showed not compassion for what she was dealing with. If the spice shop was and indication to how he would react. Why would she want to talk to him on the phone. You say she taunted. What would you expect when both conversation Nick was being unreasonable and refusing to accept she was permanently a hexenbiest. Nick wanted to learn to accept Juliette as a hexenbiest. She was realizing she was a hexenbiest and not Juliette. Like she said she was losing herself. Even Adalind admitted when she got her powers back she would be a different person. Even Eve told Nick Adalind would not be the person he knew. Nick answer been there done that. All of the talk about Nick wanting to help. That could have never happened because he did not understand the change. IMO that is why the show went with Eve, because viewers also where not understanding the change. That was evident by all the comments of Juliette not accepting Nicks help.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - irukandji - 12-09-2016
(12-09-2016, 10:11 PM)Purity Wrote: At the end of the day, Juliette loovveed the power she got. So much she avoided Nick many times when he tried to talk to her.
I was remembering the other day, Juliette said she was afraid of Nick for he will kill her for being a HexenB. how naive could she be? Did that mean that their 7 years together meant nothing?, no trust, no love for her to think Nic kwill do something that rediculous?
Also, Nick tried very very hard to speak with her, called her so many times, she avoided as much as she could. She first went to Renard, Then Henrietta, then the Spice shop till she saw Nick there. It was so childish of her not to believe that 7 years of her relationship meant something. The next thing we see her do is taunt Nick.
What I see in this post is that you're looking at Juliette as though she's exactly the same person she was before she ever became a hexenbiest. She's not. I compare her actions with someone who has a brain tumor that completely changes their outlook.
The issue I see is that there is a great imbalance here. Juliette has the disadvantage. Nick has the advantage. Yet Nick keeps trying to treat her as though she's still the same person she was before and that was a terrible mistake.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - Purity - 12-09-2016
(12-09-2016, 10:31 PM)syscrash Wrote:Quote:I was remembering the other day, Juliette said she was afraid Nick for he will kill for being a HexenB. how naive could she be? Did that mean that their 7 years together meant nothing?, no trust, no love for her to think of something that rediculous?
what is ridicules is not understanding the fear that Nick the Grimm would kill Juliette the hexenbiest. Even Adalind made the same comment when she got her powers back. Almost every wesen Nick meets fears he will kill them. This has been debated. The fear is not rational thought but instinct. What is not clear, is it learned or hereditary. Because Juliette also had the fear, leads more to it being hereditary.
Quote:Also, Nick tried very very hard to speak with her, called her so many times, she avoided as much as she could. She first went to Renard, Then Henrietta, then the Spice shop till she saw Nick there. It was so childish of her not to believe that 7 years of her relationship meant something. Th next thing we see her do is taunt Nick.
Nick has only wanted to cure her never has he made an effort to accept her. Even the first time in the spice shop. He showed not compassion for what she was dealing with. If the spice shop was and indication to how he would react. Why would she want to talk to him on the phone. You say she taunted. What would you expect when both conversation Nick was being unreasonable and refusing to accept she was permanently a hexenbiest. Nick wanted to learn to accept Juliette as a hexenbiest. She was realizing she was a hexenbiest and not Juliette. Like she said she was losing herself. Even Adalind admitted when she got her powers back she would be a different person. Even Eve told Nick Adalind would not be the person he knew. Nick answer been there done that. All of the talk about Nick wanting to help. That could have never happened because he did not understand the change. IMO that is why the show went with Eve, because viewers also where not understanding the change. That was evident by all the comments of Juliette not accepting Nicks help.
Alright, both of them at the end of the day hurt themselves seriously as the end game. Nick was too new to understand this and accept her immediatly, Juliette decided to go on a killing spree, to help kill his mother, wanted to take out the baby too an kill Nick.
I guess thats what Nick gets for not trying to understand her as quick as possible or for both not to have the patience to understand each other.
What I will be so amazed is if the writers went with the script for Nick to go back to her...lol.
How to absorb this move if it happened....
Nick and Eve laying down in bed together, wakeing up in bed every morning, "Good morning darling,- Good morning honey, I missed you - oohhh I missed you too honey, - hope you slept well, - ohh yes honey I did - ahhh thanks for killing my mum by the way - you are welcome my sugar hun - Now darling how about some pancacks for breakfast. Ohh that's great, who's cooking?
"
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - Hell Rell - 12-09-2016
Juliette was considered to be a different person when she became a Hexenbiest but the thing that stood out to me the most was how she saw Nick. Nick couldn't realize that this was a completely different Juliette until it was too late but she also stopped seeing him as Nick when she became a Hexenbiest. She saw him as more of a Grimm than she did as Nick, the man whom with she had a serious relationship for several years. Juliette had changed pretty much overnight but there wasn't a noticeable difference in Nick at any point in season 4 yet she was convinced he might kill her without a moment's hesitation.
I interpreted the scene of Juliette revealing herself to Nick as her being more afraid of him killing her, to her credit he did pull out a gun thinking it was Adalind fooling him again, than rejecting her. I can understand why she would be afraid of him rejecting her but I always felt like her fear of him killing her without doing anything wrong was farfetched. I know someone will respond with the irrational fears of a Hexenbiest but I'm not going to sit here and not be critical of this part of the story. I never once bought into the idea that Juliette would truly be that concerned about Nick killing her. Nick didn't see the new Juliette but she didn't see the real Nick either because she was more afraid of what he is rather than who he is.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - syscrash - 12-09-2016
Juliette was never going to kill Adalind in the police station. If she was going to kill her she would have walked in exploded Adalind's head and walked out. Just like she did in the restaurant. In the spice shop do you real think she missed Monroe because she was a bad shot. With her abilities she have have taken the gun put it point blank and pulled the trigger. If she was going to kill Monroe why wait till Hank moved him out the way. Nick was standing there for a while. Why would she wait if she wanted him dead. Both times it was an act of intimidation. It was to show she was not someone to mess with. With Adalind she scares her with the knives, then with the statue, then in the station. The result Adalind is deathly afraid of Juliette and now Eve. The spice shop was a continuation of the trailer. She just wanted to piss them off because they where pissing her off.
With Nick and Eve they would never have a good morning honey conversation. That is Juliette Eve is not that kind of person. Eve is a dominate person and will always be dominate. She is capable of being seductive. But like Adalind, being loving does not seem to be in their play book. Think about it each of her actions with Nick have been acts of seduction. That is why I think people see them as having more chemistry. Has anybody else noticed the difference between Nick and Juliette in bed and Nick and Adalind. There are a number of pictures of Nick holding Juliette in bed. Nick and Adalind they are never holding each other. If we see Nick and Eve they also will not be holding each other.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - Hell Rell - 12-09-2016
Nick was caressing Adalind in bed when he thought about their fight from season 1. Adalind was leaning into him before Nick's phone rang. They were both talking about how they never thought they would do what they did the night before while embracing each other. They would've done so a bit longer had Nick not received the call.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - syscrash - 12-10-2016
Quote:Nick was caressing Adalind in bed when he thought about their fight from season 1. Adalind was leaning into him before Nick's phone rang. They were both talking about how they never thought they would do what they did the night before while embracing each other. They would've done so a bit longer had Nick not received the call.He was laying on his back she had her head on his chest. He had his arm draped around her. Take it from a guy that is what we do after sex just before reaching for our pants. And to think that is the most tender moment they have to gether. Even the kiss was cold and lacked passion.
With Nick and Juliette when in bed she ends up in his arms and they are holding each other. Not Nicks arm draped over her.
Nick and Juliette have a number of scenes that the two are showing affection for each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATEG7BKB8o
I have not found a video showing that much affection with Nick and Adalind.
There is another big difference. When Adalind was Juliette and he reached for her she pushed him away. When Juliette was Adalind they ended holding each other. Showing it is a character trait and not an actors limitation.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - rpmaluki - 12-10-2016
(12-09-2016, 10:31 PM)syscrash Wrote: what is ridicules is not understanding the fear that Nick the Grimm would kill Juliette the hexenbiest. Even Adalind made the same comment when she got her powers back. Almost every wesen Nick meets fears he will kill them. This has been debated. The fear is not rational thought but instinct. What is not clear, is it learned or hereditary. Because Juliette also had the fear, leads more to it being hereditary.Adalind wasn't afraid Nick would kill her, she was afraid he'd kick her and Kelly out at least that's what she told Rosalee. I think she was more afraid of Nick seeing her as the evil hexenbiest he fought with and hated. Juliette feared for her life, not Adalind.
(12-10-2016, 12:45 AM)syscrash Wrote:I can't judge the passion between Nick and Adalind as Nick not being interested because he definitely was into Adalind before leaving for Germany and up until he opened the treasure box, he was looking forward to retuning to her and Kelly. With regards to the kissing some actors keep their kisses quite chaste and others prefer to swallow their partners whole. I haven’t seen Nick kiss enough to say he doesn't have any desire/passion for Adalind. He's told her he wanted to kiss her for a while, I have seen him oogle her, get awkward when she was in his shirt/saw her bra in the bathroom, he's caressed her, leaned into her kiss after finding out about her powers, comforted her and held her close after confessing about her powers. This show isn't about romance so we don't get gratuitous displays of affection etc. The writers only tell/show enough to drive the plot and if it's not relevant to the plot, we'll never see it.Quote:Nick was caressing Adalind in bed when he thought about their fight from season 1. Adalind was leaning into him before Nick's phone rang. They were both talking about how they never thought they would do what they did the night before while embracing each other. They would've done so a bit longer had Nick not received the call.He was laying on his back she had her head on his chest. He had his arm draped around her. Take it from a guy that is what we do after sex just before reaching for our pants. And to think that is the most tender moment they have to gether. Even the kiss was cold and lacked passion.
With Nick and Juliette when in bed she ends up in his arms and they are holding each other. Not Nicks arm draped over her.
Nick and Juliette have a number of scenes that the two are showing affection for each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATEG7BKB8o
I have not found a video showing that much affection with Nick and Adalind.
There is another big difference. When Adalind was Juliette and he reached for her she pushed him away. When Juliette was Adalind they ended holding each other. Showing it is a character trait and not an actors limitation.
Nick is not indifferent to Adalind and we honestly can't compare relationships because people aren't the same and he's in a different place with Adalind than he was with Juliette, neither cancels out the other, the only thing he can do is to choose which woman he wants to be with moving forward. The showrunners and the actor keep telling us Nick loves/in love with Adalind whether or not we believe it, they certainly do and they kind of have more authority over that than say my interpretation of the story and how not good it's being told. The mistake is also thinking love is only expressed in certain defined parameters that meet your standard alone. That's why we have things like first love and second and fourth and so on and love where opposites attract, love based on similarities, love at first sight vs falling in love with best friend. Love can grow from a variety of circumstances, it can instant or take years to grow like in some arranged marriages in different cultures. I don't think Nick is in love with Adalind but he most definitely has feelings for her (love...lust...whatever), feelings that he hasn't truly explored within himself because of everything that has been happen with BC and especially now that he knows she's a full fledged hexenbiest. It's just been months, I can't compare that to him and Juliette at the same stage because I don't know. He could have have been jittery or hesitant or pushy, the show wasn't airing at that stage of the relationship to give me a better understanding of his almost stagnant relationship with Adalind. At this stage his feelings for her could grow stronger or weaker but we won't know until the show returns.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - Purity - 12-10-2016
(12-10-2016, 01:26 AM)rpmaluki Wrote:(12-09-2016, 10:31 PM)syscrash Wrote: what is ridicules is not understanding the fear that Nick the Grimm would kill Juliette the hexenbiest. Even Adalind made the same comment when she got her powers back. Almost every wesen Nick meets fears he will kill them. This has been debated. The fear is not rational thought but instinct. What is not clear, is it learned or hereditary. Because Juliette also had the fear, leads more to it being hereditary.Adalind wasn't afraid Nick would kill her, she was afraid he'd kick her and Kelly out at least that's what she told Rosalee. I think she was more afraid of Nick seeing her as the evil hexenbiest he fought with and hated. Juliette feared for her life, not Adalind.
(12-10-2016, 12:45 AM)syscrash Wrote:I can't judge the passion between Nick and Adalind as Nick not being interested because he definitely was into Adalind before leaving for Germany and up until he opened the treasure box, he was looking forward to retuning to her and Kelly. With regards to the kissing some actors keep their kisses quite chaste and others prefer to swallow their partners whole. I haven’t seen Nick kiss enough to say he doesn't have any desire/passion for Adalind. He's told her he wanted to kiss her for a while, I have seen him oogle her, get awkward when she was in his shirt/saw her bra in the bathroom, he's caressed her, leaned into her kiss after finding out about her powers, comforted her and held her close after confessing about her powers. This show isn't about romance so we don't get gratuitous displays of affection etc. The writers only tell/show enough to drive the plot and if it's not relevant to the plot, we'll never see it.Quote:Nick was caressing Adalind in bed when he thought about their fight from season 1. Adalind was leaning into him before Nick's phone rang. They were both talking about how they never thought they would do what they did the night before while embracing each other. They would've done so a bit longer had Nick not received the call.He was laying on his back she had her head on his chest. He had his arm draped around her. Take it from a guy that is what we do after sex just before reaching for our pants. And to think that is the most tender moment they have to gether. Even the kiss was cold and lacked passion.
With Nick and Juliette when in bed she ends up in his arms and they are holding each other. Not Nicks arm draped over her.
Nick and Juliette have a number of scenes that the two are showing affection for each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HATEG7BKB8o
I have not found a video showing that much affection with Nick and Adalind.
There is another big difference. When Adalind was Juliette and he reached for her she pushed him away. When Juliette was Adalind they ended holding each other. Showing it is a character trait and not an actors limitation.
Nick is not indifferent to Adalind and we honestly can't compare relationships because people aren't the same and he's in a different place with Adalind than he was with Juliette, neither cancels out the other, the only thing he can do is to choose which woman he wants to be with moving forward. The showrunners and the actor keep telling us Nick loves/in love with Adalind whether or not we believe it, they certainly do and they kind of have more authority over that than say my interpretation of the story and how not good it's being told. The mistake is also thinking love is only expressed in certain defined parameters that meet your standard alone. That's why we have things like first love and second and fourth and so on and love where opposites attract, love based on similarities, love at first sight vs falling in love with best friend. Love can grow from a variety of circumstances, it can instant or take years to grow like in some arranged marriages in different cultures. I don't think Nick is in love with Adalind but he most definitely has feelings for her (love...lust...whatever), feelings that he hasn't truly explored within himself because of everything that has been happen with BC and especially now that he knows she's a full fledged hexenbiest. It's just been months, I can't compare that to him and Juliette at the same stage because I don't know. He could have have been jittery or hesitant or pushy, the show wasn't airing at that stage of the relationship to give me a better understanding of his almost stagnant relationship with Adalind. At this stage his feelings for her could grow stronger or weaker but we won't know until the show returns.
You know, I read this and I could not have said this any better. Well said especially....
Quote:The mistake is also thinking love is only expressed in certain defined parameters that meet your standard alone. That's why we have things like first love and second and fourth and so on and love where opposites attract, love based on similarities, love at first sight vs falling in love with best friend. Love can grow from a variety of circumstances, it can instant or take years to grow like in some arranged marriages in different cultures.
Only thing is this part but my opinion, every one is entitled to theirs.....
Quote: I don't think Nick is in love with Adalind but he most definitely has feelings for her (love...lust...whatever), feelings that he hasn't truly explored, ....
I believe he is in love but does not realize it yet, thats why "not trully explored" fits this category, and ofcourse with all the things happening, all he wants to do now is keep them safe. so with that, I also believe when he does go extra miles, it could make him understand how much he will do for them and that could be what triggers his feelings for her to be clear as to Adalind knowing too on how much he feels for her for his actions.