+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Spoilers (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Spoilers)
+---- Forum: Season 6 Spoilers (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Season-6-Spoilers)
+---- Thread: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea (/Thread-TRUST-and-who-has-it-syscrash-idea)
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - irukandji - 12-12-2016
(12-12-2016, 09:58 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: Please, don’t fill offended, but you clearly don’t trust Nick. Because of that you are always defending Juliette. You never try understanding Nick’s position; you only see Juliette’s position. I see Juliette doing the same thing after she became hexanbiest. She never tried to understand how Nick felt about that. This selfish attitude of her is what proves to me that she showed no trust on Nick.
To be clear, I am not accusing her of nothing because I think Nick did the same thing. Nick didn’t ask Juliette how she felt. He just thought about his feelings. He just though about how guilty he felt and because of this he just thought about “fixing” her. He also showed no trust in her. Both were selfish because they both just thought about themselves, they didn’t think about what was best for them as couple. In the end their attitudes destroyed the little small trust that still existed between them.
But what I don’t agree with you is to blame only one side of the equation. You can list ten pages of reasons for Juliette to not trust Nick and I will agree with all of them. But someone can also list ten pages of reasons for Nick to not trust Juliette and I will also agree with all of them. This doesn’t matter. The important questions are:
What did Juliette to gain Nick’s trust?
What did Nick to gain Juliette’s trust?
The answer is the same for both. NOTHING. Maybe just a few and very insignificant things.
Adriano, let me remind you of your previous post:
Quote:Nick accepting Juliette as hexanbiest meant accepting that she saw him as enemy. The only rational answer would be to think about Juliette in the same way. Nick would have avoid many troubles if he had killed her first, like the death of his mother.
And my response:
Quote:Yep, he should have killed her. His mother would still be alive if he had done that in the first place.
You were the one who stated I responded too fast in agreeing with your post and questioned if I saw another option.
I do not and still do not.
I'm not offended by your post. I'm confused as to what your point is.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - New Guy - 12-12-2016
(12-11-2016, 04:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: New Guy...Hi Adriano,
My point about accepting Juliette as hexanbiest is not only about hexanbiest. As you said, Adelaind is a hexanbiest but she never tryed to kill Nick. They acted as enemies but the kind of enemy that try to use each other in their plans. Think about Sean using Nick in his plans about protecting himself from the royals.
Juliette actions were more destructive about Nick. Nick took too much time to realize that. Don't you think?
Yes. Many of us on the forum would likely say Nick was too slow to realize how destructive Hexenette had become. When she "walked out" he should have tracked her down and had "Come to Jesus" talk with her. He should have told Wu to track her cell phone 24/7, change all accounts, passwords, etc. But he did not so some have given him the label of doofus. He could have easily prevented the arson of the trailer and murder of his Mother.
N G
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - syscrash - 12-12-2016
Quote:Anymay... Irrational fear is an interpretation that has no bases on the show. Adelaind never feared Nick in this level. She feared Nick abandon her, not to kill her.
Henrietta never feared Nick in an irrational way. The same goes to Elizabeth. We can say the same for the males zauberbiests (Sean and Conrad). Why only Juliette would have an irrational fear of Nick?
She feared Nick because she was going for changes she didn’t understand. It had nothing to do with hexanbiest X grimm thing. If that was the case, Nick and Adelaind would never work as long as it did.
This means that your theory of irrational fear from hexanbiest to grimm is just it: a theory with no bases on facts.
There are a number of time Adalind has said she fears that Nick might kill her. You can not look and Henrietta and Elizabeth. With there power their is noting they fear because there is nothing they can't kill. There very first woge on the show was Adalind when she saw Nick was a Grimm. What rational reason did she have to fear Nick. Even Adalind admitted he was her first Grimm. She even admitted that he scared her. Just like all the wesen Nick works with. Once they express their fear. it is gone. The same was true with Adalind and Juliette. Even with wesen the ones that are able to kill anything they encounter do not woge or show fear. But everyone of the weaker wesen without exception show fear. Once it passes they are OK. We have never seen any wesen repeatedly show fear.
As for Juliette there is noting rational that would cause her to think Nick would go get his ax or she would kill Rosalee. process of elimination says in nothing rational would cause the thought then it most be irrational. Since those are the only two options.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - Robyn - 12-12-2016
(12-12-2016, 10:06 AM)rpmaluki Wrote: I would love to see their conversation when they finally come face to face. Adalind realises taking Kelly away hurt Nick but she thought only of herself and I would like for them to address this.Looking at the situation from Adalind’s point of view, I can’t image a mother letting a man’s hurt feelings take precedence over any possibility, no matter how slight, to get back her daughter who has been kidnapped multiple times by multiple factions - which includes the man who’s going to experience hurt feelings.
Should Nick attempt to have this particular conversation with Adalind, my sincerest hope would be that the show go against it’s grain and allow Adalind to use every ounce of Hexenbiest strength at her disposal to throw him out of her life - literally.
Nick/Adalind has to be one of the most idiotic relationships ever. Nick won’t trust Adalind with his tunnels or his precious little stick, but has no problem trusting Adalind with his son even after he’s been warned by Eve, Trubel, Meisner, and Adalind that Adalind & Kelly have become venerable to Renard & BC. Adalind is absolutely certain she’s in love with Nick and that he will protect her & Kelly, and yet, she won’t trust sharing everything that’s been happening with Renard & Diana.
Heaven help us if this were anything close to a realistic example of trust.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 12-12-2016
(12-12-2016, 10:23 AM)irukandji Wrote: Adriano, let me remind you of your previous post:
Quote:Nick accepting Juliette as hexanbiest meant accepting that she saw him as enemy. The only rational answer would be to think about Juliette in the same way. Nick would have avoid many troubles if he had killed her first, like the death of his mother.
And my response:
Quote:Yep, he should have killed her. His mother would still be alive if he had done that in the first place.
You were the one who stated I responded too fast in agreeing with your post and questioned if I saw another option.
I do not and still do not.
I'm not offended by your post. I'm confused as to what your point is.
You are right. I think my posts ended up begin a little confuse.
I will simplify. I think that the same reasons the made Juliette to talk to Sean first made Nick to go for a walk. The same reasons that made Nick want to fix Juliette made Juliette to fear Nick. It is the lack of trust between then.
I mean both are guilty.
This way I don’t agree with your posts when you post like if Juliette had reasons for go to Elizabeth and Henrietta before talking to Nick. And then you accuse Nick to go for walk when Juliette showed him the woge. I think both attitudes were destructive in terms of the trust between them. Did I make it clear?
Note: About the
Quote:You were the one who stated I responded too fast in agreeing with your post and questioned if I saw another option.I was just asking you to still keep the debating. I like to read your opinions.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 12-12-2016
(12-12-2016, 10:27 AM)New Guy Wrote:(12-11-2016, 04:07 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: New Guy...Hi Adriano,
My point about accepting Juliette as hexanbiest is not only about hexanbiest. As you said, Adelaind is a hexanbiest but she never tryed to kill Nick. They acted as enemies but the kind of enemy that try to use each other in their plans. Think about Sean using Nick in his plans about protecting himself from the royals.
Juliette actions were more destructive about Nick. Nick took too much time to realize that. Don't you think?
Yes. Many of us on the forum would likely say Nick was too slow to realize how destructive Hexenette had become. When she "walked out" he should have tracked her down and had "Come to Jesus" talk with her. He should have told Wu to track her cell phone 24/7, change all accounts, passwords, etc. But he did not so some have given him the label of doofus. He could have easily prevented the arson of the trailer and murder of his Mother.
N G
New Guy, you said something I havent't think about. Nick could have tracked Juliette's phone. He could have found her. But he didn't. He gave Juliette time to answer his calls and return when she felt she should return. But she never did it.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - brandon - 12-12-2016
That same I mentioned in another post.if he did not I see that he did not want to press it, she will talk when she wants.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - irukandji - 12-12-2016
(12-12-2016, 10:54 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: You are right. I think my posts ended up begin a little confuse.
I will simplify. I think that the same reasons the made Juliette to talk to Sean first made Nick to go for a walk. The same reasons that made Nick want to fix Juliette made Juliette to fear Nick. It is the lack of trust between then.
I mean both are guilty.
This way I don’t agree with your posts when you post like if Juliette had reasons for go to Elizabeth and Henrietta before talking to Nick. And then you accuse Nick to go for walk when Juliette showed him the woge. I think both attitudes were destructive in terms of the trust between them. Did I make it clear?
I re-read your previous post and this one. I get the impression that you're trying to make this an equal mistrust issue. In other words, if I lay the mistrust blame on Nick, I should also lay the mistrust blame on Juliette. If so, why? Are you saying this because that's the way you see it? I'm not trying to be offensive here, Adriano, but I am still not sure why this issue is coming up. And maybe it's due to me misunderstanding what you're trying to say here, but that's the feeling I'm getting from this post and your previous post.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 12-12-2016
(12-12-2016, 05:24 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-12-2016, 10:54 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: You are right. I think my posts ended up begin a little confuse.
I will simplify. I think that the same reasons the made Juliette to talk to Sean first made Nick to go for a walk. The same reasons that made Nick want to fix Juliette made Juliette to fear Nick. It is the lack of trust between then.
I mean both are guilty.
This way I don’t agree with your posts when you post like if Juliette had reasons for go to Elizabeth and Henrietta before talking to Nick. And then you accuse Nick to go for walk when Juliette showed him the woge. I think both attitudes were destructive in terms of the trust between them. Did I make it clear?
I re-read your previous post and this one. I get the impression that you're trying to make this an equal mistrust issue. In other words, if I lay the mistrust blame on Nick, I should also lay the mistrust blame on Juliette. If so, why? Are you saying this because that's the way you see it? I'm not trying to be offensive here, Adriano, but I am still not sure why this issue is coming up. And maybe it's due to me misunderstanding what you're trying to say here, but that's the feeling I'm getting from this post and your previous post.
Yes that is it... I think that both failed on build a trust relationship between them. If you read my first post I wrote that trust is is a two way street. In a certain way all my posts were based in this idea.
In simple words, for Juliette to trust Nick he had to conquer her trust. But she also had to give him the opportunity to conquer her trust. The opposite is also true. If it was for Nick to trust Juliette she had to conquer his trust but he had to give she the opportunity.
So the mistrust existed because Nick failed in conquer Juliette trust and she didn't gave him the opportunity. Juliette didn't conquer Nick's trust and he didn't give she the opportunity.
Actually all my posts was just based in this idea.
RE: TRUST and who has it @syscrash idea - irukandji - 12-12-2016
(12-12-2016, 06:31 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:(12-12-2016, 05:24 PM)irukandji Wrote:(12-12-2016, 10:54 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote: You are right. I think my posts ended up begin a little confuse.
I will simplify. I think that the same reasons the made Juliette to talk to Sean first made Nick to go for a walk. The same reasons that made Nick want to fix Juliette made Juliette to fear Nick. It is the lack of trust between then.
I mean both are guilty.
This way I don’t agree with your posts when you post like if Juliette had reasons for go to Elizabeth and Henrietta before talking to Nick. And then you accuse Nick to go for walk when Juliette showed him the woge. I think both attitudes were destructive in terms of the trust between them. Did I make it clear?
I re-read your previous post and this one. I get the impression that you're trying to make this an equal mistrust issue. In other words, if I lay the mistrust blame on Nick, I should also lay the mistrust blame on Juliette. If so, why? Are you saying this because that's the way you see it? I'm not trying to be offensive here, Adriano, but I am still not sure why this issue is coming up. And maybe it's due to me misunderstanding what you're trying to say here, but that's the feeling I'm getting from this post and your previous post.
Yes that is it... I think that both failed on build a trust relationship between them. If you read my first post I wrote that trust is is a two way street. In a certain way all my posts were based in this idea.
In simple words, for Juliette to trust Nick he had to conquer her trust. But she also had to give him the opportunity to conquer her trust. The opposite is also true. If it was for Nick to trust Juliette she had to conquer his trust but he had to give she the opportunity.
So the mistrust existed because Nick failed in conquer Juliette trust and she didn't gave him the opportunity. Juliette didn't conquer Nick's trust and he didn't give she the opportunity.
Actually all my posts was just based in this idea.
I'm glad you explained this, Adriano and it has also given me pause to think about my posts. While your posts were based on trust and mistrust, even though I stated differently I can see now that mine were not based on trust or mistrust. Mine were based more on actions and reactions. For instance, I don't see a trust/mistrust issue when Juliette went to see Renard. Juliette's a smart and methodical character. She would have thought things through and going to Renard was a logical move. Nick reacted to her going to Renard, but he didn't mistrust her because she did so.
Likewise, Nick was not showing a mistrust issue when he pulled his gun on her. He did not show a mistrust issue when he walked out. He was reacting to her woge.
I hope this makes sense.