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+--- Thread: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard (/Thread-Nicholas-Nick-Burkhardt-versus-Sean-Renard)
Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 08-24-2016
I have the impression 6 season will be a battle between Nick and Sean.
Maybe it would be interesting to compare the two characters throw all the series identifying pros and cons in each one.
The first comparison that calls my attention is the capacity of act and react according to the situation.
Example: Nick didn't saw any hint Hexan Julie gave to him about the thread on his mother (this was debated in another thread). By his side, Sean noted there was something wrong with Rachel after Dixon death, he also saw an opportunity and went for it.
Because of this I have the impression that everything in Nick's life is by accident. Baby Kelly was an accident. Nick find the hidden treasure was an accident (he wasn't really looking for that). And if Nick manage to won on Sean that will be by accident (because the writers want it like that).
Sean in his place is always seeing and getting the opportunities. He is not mayor only by accident, for example. He got an opportunity.
What other comparisons between the two characters can you see?
How do you see this working in season 6?
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - syscrash - 08-24-2016
Sean always has a plan in play. Nick never plans his actions, he only reacts. Nick is move by emotions. I have not seen anything push Sean's buttons. Sean has no problem seeking revenge, Nick does not. Sean can kill without hesitation Nick can not, Kenneth being a good example. Sean can lead. People will follow Nick but he can not take charge he is easily intimidated. The only two times I have seen Sean intimidated was with Conrad and with Eve.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - jsgrimm45 - 08-25-2016
(08-24-2016, 06:33 PM)syscrash Wrote: Sean always has a plan in play. Nick never plans his actions, he only reacts. Nick is move by emotions. I have not seen anything push Sean's buttons. Sean has no problem seeking revenge, Nick does not. Sean can kill without hesitation Nick can not, Kenneth being a good example. Sean can lead. People will follow Nick but he can not take charge he is easily intimidated. The only two times I have seen Sean intimidated was with Conrad and with Eve.Here we will disagree @syscrash first Sean is better at planning ahead but Nick is better at seeing the problem and then planning an out. Nick can change his idea on the fly like getting out of the black forest. When Sean first step into BC it was because he seen away to be mayor, later when he met Conrad I think he had two plans. Plan one work on being Conrad's #2 or killing Conrad. At this point Nick didn't have anything to plan he most of time has to wait and see what is happening to plan. On any battlefield the one who can see the need to change and change is the winner, the one who get locked into their plan and doesn't change will lose.
Sean doesn't have loyal followers name one person other than Elizabeth who will back him up? Nick has a group of people who work with him because he is who he is a friend. Willing to die for them does can Sean say the same.
Sean and Nick had a good working relationship for a time so each knows the other pretty well. The both know what the other is like and somewhat how they think, I see Sean getting locked into his plan and Nick changing his. Now what they will plan I haven't a clue.
Adriano points out that Nick my words falls into things, Sean doesn't but both make the best of their opportunities. I would have to ask for more detail on "easily intimidated" as I don't see Nick at way so my interested why you do?
Will do some more thinking.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - irukandji - 08-25-2016
Hi Adriano-Good to see you on the forum again. How about similarities between the two men? Can we discuss those too?
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 08-25-2016
(08-25-2016, 08:52 AM)irukandji Wrote: Hi Adriano-Good to see you on the forum again. How about similarities between the two men? Can we discuss those too?Hi irukandji... Thank you for the reply...
For sure we can discuss the similarities between the two characters. Personally I see more the differences between them but certainly a comparison will only be complete if it has both things: the similarities and the differences. And how each of them affects their “relation”.
(08-25-2016, 07:20 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Adriano points out that Nick my words falls into things, Sean doesn't but both make the best of their opportunities.
Hi jsgrimm.
Just to explain better this point.
What I think is that Sean pays more attention to what is happening around him and how this would affect him in the future and then him plans to be ready for it…
Considering Nick, I have the impression that he just reacts in the very last moment.
Just to use a situation as example:
Nick and Sean were in a war against the royals. Nick did nothing in any moment to protect Juliette not even after Juliette became hexanbiest. I mean… Nick left HexanJuli in a jail “just ready” to be used as a weapon against him by the royals. In any moment Nick analysed the situation and get ready for a possible move from the royals.
Sean, in his way, when he found out Adelaind was in Europe and probably pregnant from him, he realized the baby could be used against him or for being his or for the power the royals would have from the baby. Sean used the available resources to make a move over the royals and protect the baby taking the baby and Adelaind from Europe. Even Sean accepting Nick’s mom take the baby away from Portland was a self-protecting move… He put Adelaind against Nick and his mother… and gave a distraction to the royals. They were searching the baby for a time.
Sean has a better long term view than Nick, in my opinion. Nick just sees the short term… Nick just sees the immediate events.
But this has a good side for Nick. He is better in improvising. You have a point in this… Sean can get looked in his plan while Nick is flexible to adapt to the events of the moment.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - irukandji - 08-25-2016
Differences-
Sean is often ruthless. I don't really see Nick as a ruthless person.
For the most part, Sean has direction and purpose. Nick, however, often seems noncommittal and haphazard.
With regard to being corrupt, I think there are instances where it would be difficult to convince Sean to be corrupt. He's either going to make the decision to be corrupt or decide he doesn't want to be corrupt. It's up to him. Nick, on the other hand, seems easily influenced and therefore, easily corruptible.
Sean is smart. Nick, not so much.
Similarities-
Both men have shared the same women.
Both men don't seem to hold a high opinion of women.
Both men are corrupt.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - jsgrimm45 - 08-25-2016
(08-25-2016, 09:12 AM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:Thinking about it this way correct, yes I can see Renard looking at the royals in town in season five and making plans. Correct Nick should have figured out that the royals wanted Diana and didn't good point. But you know there is always a but how could Nick seen Juliette as a threat even if she is now a hexenbiest with the history? She did burn the trailer to get at Nick but bring Kelly back using Nick (was good writing) myself I didn't see that one coming.(08-25-2016, 08:52 AM)irukandji Wrote: Hi Adriano-Good to see you on the forum again. How about similarities between the two men? Can we discuss those too?Hi irukandji... Thank you for the reply...
For sure we can discuss the similarities between the two characters. Personally I see more the differences between them but certainly a comparison will only be complete if it has both things: the similarities and the differences. And how each of them affects their “relation”.
(08-25-2016, 07:20 AM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Adriano points out that Nick my words falls into things, Sean doesn't but both make the best of their opportunities.
Hi jsgrimm.
Just to explain better this point.
What I think is that Sean pays more attention to what is happening around him and how this would affect him in the future and then him plans to be ready for it…
Considering Nick, I have the impression that he just reacts in the very last moment.
Just to use a situation as example:
Nick and Sean were in a war against the royals. Nick did nothing in any moment to protect Juliette not even after Juliette became hexanbiest. I mean… Nick left HexanJuli in a jail “just ready” to be used as a weapon against him by the royals. In any moment Nick analysed the situation and get ready for a possible move from the royals.
Sean, in his way, when he found out Adelaind was in Europe and probably pregnant from him, he realized the baby could be used against him or for being his or for the power the royals would have from the baby. Sean used the available resources to make a move over the royals and protect the baby taking the baby and Adelaind from Europe. Even Sean accepting Nick’s mom take the baby away from Portland was a self-protecting move… He put Adelaind against Nick and his mother… and gave a distraction to the royals. They were searching the baby for a time.
Sean has a better long term view than Nick, in my opinion. Nick just sees the short term… Nick just sees the immediate events.
But this has a good side for Nick. He is better in improvising. You have a point in this… Sean can get looked in his plan while Nick is flexible to adapt to the events of the moment.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - Darlee - 08-25-2016
jsgrimm45, He could have seen Juliette as a threat by realizing that she already knew about the baby and was out of jail. The only people who knew that Adalind was pregnant was the royals. That is the part where because his stupidity Kelly had to die. He even email mama Kelly and told her that the royals know that she have Diana.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - Adriano Neres Rodrigues - 08-25-2016
(08-25-2016, 12:58 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Thinking about it this way correct, yes I can see Renard looking at the royals in town in season five and making plans. Correct Nick should have figured out that the royals wanted Diana and didn't good point. But you know there is always a but how could Nick seen Juliette as a threat even if she is now a hexenbiest with the history? She did burn the trailer to get at Nick but bring Kelly back using Nick (was good writing) myself I didn't see that one coming.
But it wasn't necessarily for Nick to see Juliette as a threat. He just needed to see her as a possible target to the royals… A way the royals would use to get to him.
If you consider that Adelaind used Juliette as a target to hit Nick in memory plot line. If you consider that Adelaind faked herself as Juliette to get to Nick and stole his grimm powers… If my memory serves well, other wesens tried to hit Juliette and this way hit Nick. That would be an obvious conclusion that the royals would try a move on Juliette. Maybe kill her… Maybe transform her in a royal ally against Nick (that was the final plot)…
Do you remember our thread “A trail of bread crumbs”? Sometimes I have the impression Nick is not paying attention.
RE: Nicholas "Nick" Burkhardt versus Sean Renard - jsgrimm45 - 08-25-2016
(08-25-2016, 01:19 PM)Darlee Wrote: jsgrimm45, He could have seen Juliette as a threat by realizing that she already knew about the baby and was out of jail. The only people who knew that Adalind was pregnant was the royals. That is the part where because his stupidity Kelly had to die. He even email mama Kelly and told her that the royals know that she have Diana.I'll buy part of that but why would he think Juliette would go that far? Wasn't he still hoping to get thing worked out with her?
(08-25-2016, 01:29 PM)Adriano Neres Rodrigues Wrote:Guess I'm seeing Nick as wanting to think the old Juliette was still in there and might hurt him but not Kelly. Could that be the thoughts he was using? Where Sean might think a double cross Nick might not.(08-25-2016, 12:58 PM)jsgrimm45 Wrote: Thinking about it this way correct, yes I can see Renard looking at the royals in town in season five and making plans. Correct Nick should have figured out that the royals wanted Diana and didn't good point. But you know there is always a but how could Nick seen Juliette as a threat even if she is now a hexenbiest with the history? She did burn the trailer to get at Nick but bring Kelly back using Nick (was good writing) myself I didn't see that one coming.
But it wasn't necessarily for Nick to see Juliette as a threat. He just needed to see her as a possible target to the royals… A way the royals would use to get to him.
If you consider that Adelaind used Juliette as a target to hit Nick in memory plot line. If you consider that Adelaind faked herself as Juliette to get to Nick and stole his grimm powers… If my memory serves well, other wesens tried to hit Juliette and this way hit Nick. That would be an obvious conclusion that the royals would try a move on Juliette. Maybe kill her… Maybe transform her in a royal ally against Nick (that was the final plot)…
Do you remember our thread “A trail of bread crumbs”? Sometimes I have the impression Nick is not paying attention.