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+---- Thread: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve (/Thread-As-per-Greenwalt-and-Kouf-apparently-Eve-is-still-just-Eve)
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - tscchope - 05-24-2016
(05-24-2016, 07:07 AM)irukandji Wrote: According to the nbc recaps, Nick was troubled by his guilt over the murder. There was no mention that Nick felt any remorse or regret.Nick was going to turn himself in. That's an expression of remorse and regret. I'd have liked to see that develop as a story.
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - syscrash - 05-24-2016
G&K have already said Eve is Eve with feelings. Why do people have such a hard time with the difference between Juliette and Eve. Eve is a hexenbiest Juliette was not. What we saw in season five was the two fighting for the same person. Eve thinks and solves problems different then Juliette ever would. Juliette would give people the benefit of the doubt. Once she became a hexenbiest she questioned everything. Juliette put others first, now it is self preservation. The having feelings is a reboot of season 5. It asked the question what if Nick had of been accepting how would it have worked. What if Juliette had of had someone to help her deal with what it means to be a hexenbiest would she may not have been as conflicted. She would not have had to shut down the Juliette side. Comments keep seeing Juliette as what she did. Juliette's bigger problem was dealing with what she was feeling. That is where season 6 ambiguity will come from. Will the hexenbiest with a personality be due to Nick accepting her, or her dealing with the feelings. Season 5 hexenette and Season 6 Eve will again address nature over nurture.
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - degrimm - 05-24-2016
(05-24-2016, 05:03 PM)syscrash Wrote: G&K have already said Eve is Eve with feelings. Why do people have such a hard time with the difference between Juliette and Eve. Eve is a hexenbiest Juliette was not. What we saw in season five was the two fighting for the same person. Eve thinks and solves problems different then Juliette ever would. Juliette would give people the benefit of the doubt. Once she became a hexenbiest she questioned everything. Juliette put others first, now it is self preservation. The having feelings is a reboot of season 5. It asked the question what if Nick had of been accepting how would it have worked. What if Juliette had of had someone to help her deal with what it means to be a hexenbiest would she may not have been as conflicted. She would not have had to shut down the Juliette side. Comments keep seeing Juliette as what she did. Juliette's bigger problem was dealing with what she was feeling. That is where season 6 ambiguity will come from. Will the hexenbiest with a personality be due to Nick accepting her, or her dealing with the feelings. Season 5 hexenette and Season 6 Eve will again address nature over nurture.
Good reasoning here and i like it but one question;
1, do you think if season 6 goes as season 4B went, we might have another hexenbiest with no emotions and have to shut down juliette again??? or juliette will be able to overcome the biest on her own.
2, from the way season 5 went about, it looks like there might be a friendship bond pairing btw rosalee and juliette(yes with biest cos still dont have a name for her yet) in season 6 and rosalee seems to be the one that knows her very well; do you think rosalee might help her here, i.e deal with feelings?? or like you said nick accepting her??.
cos we all know adalind, she wont be with renard for long esp. when she realizes conrad is dead and renard doesn't know the ring is enchanted so she could easily leave renard
3
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - syscrash - 05-24-2016
As I see it. Hexenette took revenge against Nick with the trailer. She attacked her friends emotionally. Finally she conspired against Nick. An Eve with feelings will still seek revenge. Just like Adalind through the vase at Sean. If Nick upsets Eve she would through something at him. Season 5 Eve, nothing Nick could do would effect her. The new Eve will not launch emotional attacks, she will also be concerned about the problems of others. Where Trubel was concerned and ready to fight to help Nick, old Eve was not. Eve will be like Adalind and will not betray him.
I have found with the show you have to focus on the intent and not the action. based on actions I see why people have problem with forgiveness. Consider the intent and it makes since.
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - degrimm - 05-24-2016
(05-24-2016, 05:52 PM)syscrash Wrote: As I see it. Hexenette took revenge against Nick with the trailer. She attacked her friends emotionally. Finally she conspired against Nick. An Eve with feelings will still seek revenge.
but you said juliette part was shut down for the hexenbiest to go full mode, so why is she still attacking emotionally??
but in s06 i do believe her care for others will take precedence over revenge, the more reason i said she's more likely to reject nick so that he could go be with adalind and his baby
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - syscrash - 05-24-2016
degrimm
Quote:but you said juliette part was shut down for the hexenbiest to go full mode, so why is she still attacking emotionally??
I never said anything about hexenbiest to go full mode. A hexenbiest is what you are, not who you are. There is no difference in the hexenbiest part of Eve or Juliette. What is different is Juliette let her feeling drive her actions. She would then feel guilty. Eve has no feelings. The new Eve having feelings to be different would not let her feelings drive her actions. Remembering the guilt will keep her from reacting. Diana has to learn just because you don't like daddy's friend doesn't mean you can smother them. Even Adalind is showing she has feelings.
The big question is what will Eve and Trubel do. They are the only survivors of HW. We have now pushed Nicks level of violence and abilities way over the top. Will season 6 still see Nick as someone to fear especially while holding the stick. Are they going to create this immortal Grimm. In the finale Nick was invincible. Consider wesen already are scared of Grimm's. What happens when they find out Nick can't die.
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - droid327 - 05-24-2016
Yeah what exactly is the difference between "Juliette" and "Eve with emotions"? Eve is not a person, just a personality. Its Juliette without emotions. Eve still had all Juliette's memories, she just acted without empathy or remorse. If you put the emotions back into play, then its Juliette without emotions with emotions, which is just Juliette.
The big question is how Juliette handles it. When she first became a Hexenbiest her emotions controlled her, she was consumed by the desire for power and self-gratification, consumed with anger and spite. Emotions are the great failure of Hexenbiesten, from what Adalind has said, its what they cant control about their own nature. She's still a Hexenbiest, so why would it go any differently this time? Why would Eve suddenly be filled with empathy like Juliette (supposedly) felt (though it was hard to tell with Bitsie always doing her best impression of a decorative polished rock with her facial emoting) before she was turned, and not filled with all the negative emotions that are in the nature of Hexenbiesten?
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - irukandji - 05-24-2016
(05-24-2016, 02:34 PM)tscchope Wrote: Nick was going to turn himself in. That's an expression of remorse and regret.
Here are the reasons why Nick didn't turn himself in:
-Hank told Nick that his confession would get everyone in trouble
-Renard tells Nick that confessing to the murder will destroy his effectiveness as a Grimm.
You can believe there was remorse and regret here, but what it really comes down to is corruption.
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - Hexenadler - 05-24-2016
(05-24-2016, 07:47 PM)droid327 Wrote: Yeah what exactly is the difference between "Juliette" and "Eve with emotions"? Eve is not a person, just a personality. Its Juliette without emotions. Eve still had all Juliette's memories, she just acted without empathy or remorse. If you put the emotions back into play, then its Juliette without emotions with emotions, which is just Juliette.
The big question is how Juliette handles it. When she first became a Hexenbiest her emotions controlled her, she was consumed by the desire for power and self-gratification, consumed with anger and spite. Emotions are the great failure of Hexenbiesten, from what Adalind has said, its what they cant control about their own nature. She's still a Hexenbiest, so why would it go any differently this time? Why would Eve suddenly be filled with empathy like Juliette (supposedly) felt (though it was hard to tell with Bitsie always doing her best impression of a decorative polished rock with her facial emoting) before she was turned, and not filled with all the negative emotions that are in the nature of Hexenbiesten?
Frankly, I found the whole idea of Eve insulting from the very beginning, and that scene where she tells Nick to "stop living in the past" never fails to make my blood boil. Hopefully the writers realized the same thing, since the miracle stick seems to have resurrected elements of Juliette that Eve thought she had conveniently killed off, including her guilt.
IMO, we could be looking at some kind of gestalt persona that's a fusion of Juliette's original personality and "Hexenette." If so, they might as well take the next step and slap another new name on her.
RE: As per Greenwalt and Kouf apparently Eve is still just Eve - tscchope - 05-26-2016
(05-24-2016, 07:52 PM)irukandji Wrote: You can believe there was remorse and regret here, but what it really comes down to is corruption.What it boils down to is that Nick defers to Renard. Has done all through the series. It must be the old Royal-Grimm dynamic.