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+--- Thread: Eve/Juliette (/Thread-Eve-Juliette)
RE: Eve/Juliette - Devegs - 06-27-2017
(06-27-2017, 06:19 PM)silver Wrote: Somehow, Adalind always manages to slither by when bad stuff happens because of her spells she unleashes on everybody. Is it because she's prettier than most? Her mannerisms? Why is so much attention for blame falling on Juliette's head?! Like wow. It's not right like, at all.
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
Adalind never managed to slither off without facing repercussions. Plus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, Adalind's beauty cannot make Juliette any less beautiful. It seems you considered one prettier than the other, idk. They were both beautiful women.
In S1 Adalind got her hex taken due to her actions.
In S2, she lost her mom as a result of the cat scratch incident.
Later, she regained her hex but double crossed the royals in the process by running off with the baby, but she still suffered because Diana got taken from her.
She returned to the royals with her tail in between her legs in the hopes of being a glorified babysitter to the child. The royals used her to punish the grimm by having her take his grimm from him. That act was also to punish Sean (since they de-powered his grimm). Most important of all, the royals used her and then meted out her own punishment too. Once she got to Vienna, they placed her in the hex dungeon.
Then royals used her as a pawn when they returned to Portland, then offered her up as bait to get another pawn in place, so as to take down Kelly and get their hands on the main prize (Diana). Adalind got that beat down from Juliette, so Juliette got some satisfaction. When Adalind ran to Nick for help, she was uncertain and, rightfully, fearful that he would not care about her or the baby. Thus, as leverage, she offered a hex suppressant to fix Juliette.
On the topic:
Juliette/Eve suffered as well but also had her own share of misdeeds. However, by the end of the series Juliette is back in the fold with the gang but prefers to remain as hexenbiest Eve. The story ends with everyone being very different from how they originally started out in S1. Nick, Juliette, Adalind, Hank and Wu have shown remarkable change from when we first met them. The scoobies all have battle scars and some have acknowledged, at different points during the final two seasons, that they all share some guilt. The writers left them all as friends in S6 E13.
In the blame game of who actually set everything in motion, I believe another poster traced it to the royals (Sean being part of this group). However, the scoobies all have blood on their hands. Each one of them. I don't bash one to prove another's virtue.
RE: Eve/Juliette - rpmaluki - 06-27-2017
(06-27-2017, 08:40 PM)Devegs Wrote:Very well said.(06-27-2017, 06:19 PM)silver Wrote: Somehow, Adalind always manages to slither by when bad stuff happens because of her spells she unleashes on everybody. Is it because she's prettier than most? Her mannerisms? Why is so much attention for blame falling on Juliette's head?! Like wow. It's not right like, at all.
Firstly, welcome to the forum.
Adalind never managed to slither off without facing repercussions. Plus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. IMO, Adalind's beauty cannot make Juliette any less beautiful. It seems you considered one prettier than the other, idk. They were both beautiful women.
In S1 Adalind got her hex taken due to her actions.
In S2, she lost her mom as a result of the cat scratch incident.
Later, she regained her hex but double crossed the royals in the process by running off with the baby, but she still suffered because Diana got taken from her.
She returned to the royals with her tail in between her legs in the hopes of being a glorified babysitter to the child. The royals used her to punish the grimm by having her take his grimm from him. That act was also to punish Sean (since they de-powered his grimm). Most important of all, the royals used her and then meted out her own punishment too. Once she got to Vienna, they placed her in the hex dungeon.
Then royals used her as a pawn when they returned to Portland, then offered her up as bait to get another pawn in place, so as to take down Kelly and get their hands on the main prize (Diana). Adalind got that beat down from Juliette, so Juliette got some satisfaction. When Adalind ran to Nick for help, she was uncertain and, rightfully, fearful that he would not care about her or the baby. Thus, as leverage, she offered a hex suppressant to fix Juliette.
On the topic:
Juliette/Eve suffered as well but also had her own share of misdeeds. However, by the end of the series Juliette is back in the fold with the gang but prefers to remain as hexenbiest Eve. The story ends with everyone being very different from how they originally started out in S1. Nick, Juliette, Adalind, Hank and Wu have shown remarkable change from when we first met them. The scoobies all have battle scars and some have acknowledged, at different points during the final two seasons, that they all share some guilt. The writers left them all as friends in S6 E13.
In the blame game of who actually set everything in motion, I believe another poster traced it to the royals (Sean being part of this group). However, the scoobies all have blood on their hands. Each one of them. I don't bash one to prove another's virtue.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 06-27-2017
(06-27-2017, 06:44 PM)Loona Wrote: dicappatore, do you really know what you like? That's a serious question! In the other subject a few days ago you write you like her - and now you insist that you hate her, alright but what do you really want to convey us with?
First of all Thank you for asking a real question than just saying I have a different opinion.
I like the actress but I hate the character. I hate what the character does in the plot. Understanding why she did, and what she did is not an excuse it is a reason. To Me, I see you using a reason as an excuse. We are responsible for our own actions. We call it free will. Whatever Nick did to her or did NOT. She was ultimately responsible for her actions. Using her reactions to Nick's behavior Is an excuse. Using the Hex in her is another reason, not another excuse.
For instance. I think Nick did not over-react by walking out, and coming back later and sleeping on the couch, to her divulging her Hex. You probably think he did. So, what? Is that an excuse to Kill his mom? The Neighbors? But then you say, she wasn’t aware on how far Kenneth would go? So, what? She still is guilty. And the fact that after she found out that Nick was still alive, she went back to the house instead of Europe, to finish him off. Do you really think she gave a shit about Ken’s over kill?
I don’t know what she was thinking. I can’t read minds of people around me, let alone of a fictional character? The actress was probably thinking of her next line.
Here is another great example. You can justify her having sex with Sean as not cheating on Nick, they were on a break up. Then a few days later she torches the trailer, calls Nick up and says something about She needs to keep warm since she doesn't have him to keep her warm.
Neither of us are able to read her mind and determine by walking out on him they were on a break up. Her actions. Her lines in the script tell us what she was thinking. She saw Nick protecting Adalind in the station. She is reacting as a jealous woman whom is not on a break up. By not being on a break up, she is cheating on him. So you may ask, so what if she is cheating. It is what bad people do. Nice people don’t cheat
We use what we are given on the screen to make those determinations. Not trying to analyze what they are thinking. If the writers want you to know what they are thinking, they will use flash backs or objects to peek into their thoughts. They have done in this show plenty of times. Again, I am using the script plot. I have my own fantasies on how I would have written her part. But we don’t get that choice.
I had to add this in after I posted it. If you want to see when a script written for you to experience what a character is thinking? Check out the series, “Thirteen Reasons Why” It’s just one season out and I have to warn you. This is based on real world lives. It’s about teenage suicide. Great cry series to watch with your partner.
RE: Eve/Juliette - silver - 06-27-2017
Thanks for the welcome, Devegs.
Adalind did have repercussions, but she didn't seem so affected by them - I think she's one of those pragmatists and her mom and she were not the closest. Loved her sarcastic tone when talking with the lawyer about her mom's leavings.
I don't care who was prettier, but I do know others (especially men) can treat women preferentially depending on women's looks. I can't help but wonder about different people's approaches to the stories.
Btw, I think Juliette/Eve went back to Nick's (instead of boarding the helicopter) because she wanted him to put her out of her misery - she kept saying do it, Nick...she didn't resist - hence, her snarky remark to him - "You couldn't put me out of your misery."
If by this point, nobody seems to even consider that she went clinically insane, then I just don't know what to say.
RE: Eve/Juliette - rpmaluki - 06-27-2017
She definitely went crazy but it doesn't make her less culpable than everyone for their terrible deeds, including Nick.
RE: Eve/Juliette - dicappatore - 06-27-2017
(06-27-2017, 09:38 PM)silver Wrote: Btw, I think Juliette/Eve went back to Nick's (instead of boarding the helicopter) because she wanted him to put her out of her misery - she kept saying do it, Nick...she didn't resist - hence, her snarky remark to him - "You couldn't put me out of your misery."
If by this point, nobody seems to even consider that she went clinically insane, then I just don't know what to say.
silver, I think I have found some common grounds with you and Juliette. Remember, she wasn’t expecting Nick to survive Ken’s attack. Once she hears Rspoli on the speaker phone that they did not get him, that’s when she decides to go back. Nick is still alive, she changes her mind and doesn’t get on.
I also agree, she had a death wish. There was always part of her in conflict within herself and she did give Nick a chance to take her out. But the smuck couldn't do it. Then that evil side of her comes out and she turns on him. I guess where we differ is, if she was clinically insane. It’s not an excuse. Maybe a good reason. She is still evil and should have stayed dead.
RE: Eve/Juliette - brandon - 06-28-2017
Threw in the face what she did for he.
No one forced her, did it because she wanted.
One does things without hitting any reward.
RE: Eve/Juliette - jsgrimm45 - 06-28-2017
(06-27-2017, 11:08 PM)dicappatore Wrote:Been reading these posts with some interest the back a forth. Now myself I like reading the scripts for a reminder of what was said, but shouldn't we add that the script doesn't show the actors voice of facial expressions to add to the text.(06-27-2017, 09:38 PM)silver Wrote: Btw, I think Juliette/Eve went back to Nick's (instead of boarding the helicopter) because she wanted him to put her out of her misery - she kept saying do it, Nick...she didn't resist - hence, her snarky remark to him - "You couldn't put me out of your misery."
If by this point, nobody seems to even consider that she went clinically insane, then I just don't know what to say.
silver, I think I have found some common grounds with you and Juliette. Remember, she wasn’t expecting Nick to survive Ken’s attack. Once she hears Rspoli on the speaker phone that they did not get him, that’s when she decides to go back. Nick is still alive, she changes her mind and doesn’t get on.
I also agree, she had a death wish. There was always part of her in conflict within herself and she did give Nick a chance to take her out. But the smuck couldn't do it. Then that evil side of her comes out and she turns on him. I guess where we differ is, if she was clinically insane. It’s not an excuse. Maybe a good reason. She is still evil and should have stayed dead.
Now as for the night Nick found out about Juliette that may be one of the key scene in the series, because it set the stage of Juliette going to the darkside. The writers needed a starting point. We can look at it as a story and try to see it as a story of Nick and Juliette which is again IMO how we should do it.
Now to ask the hard questions of that scene. Can we go to an Adalind and Nick scene and see the same thing. Yes in season 6 when Adalind gets her powers back and her and Nick talk about what it means. Adalind says she also was afraid Nick would send her a way or kill her, Nick says the same could be said of her. Now did Nick learn from how he handled Juliette maybe or maybe not it was up to us to add these points.
Nick walking out that night and sleeping on the couch was again the setup to give Juliette the right to go to dark side. In real life many men might have done the same thing. If you read the book Men are from Mars Women are from Venus (should point out I haven't just parts) Men need time to think what would Nick staying in the house have help? What he just walk over to the couch and set down. He needed time to think and here I include just myself I would have when for a walk.
Now the sleeping on the couch Juliette seen that as a rejection, but Nick again just the story we chose to see, Juliette had told Nick she was afraid NIck would kill her so he could have seen it a giving her space. The one question so far not in this debate is if Juliette loved Nick and knew Nick loved her why the fear? Like the hexn side was afraid not the Juliette side? Just guessing. Some may have the idea that Juliette doubted her love for Nick and would think he didn't love her as much as he said.
Adding a little Adalind in here as a point of question. We over the seasons learned about Adalind life, how her mother treated her, her father leaving, Sean using her, Victor using her, than Kenneth using her. Juliette we have almost no background, we (could be wrong) she live with I think a Grandmother in Spain, had some type of Christmas story, and fireworks, no much more. Adalind see in Nick a different person not what she expects he doesn't use her instead helps. Now we can add the son helps here also.
Lots of question about that scene and the why of it.
RE: Eve/Juliette - brandon - 06-28-2017
Adalind know the GRIMM (1)
Juliette know a Nick. Why feared?
RE: Eve/Juliette - rpmaluki - 06-28-2017
(06-28-2017, 07:49 AM)brandon Wrote: Adalind know the GRIMM (1)Maybe it's an instinctual thing for wesen to fear Grimms. Juliette was just newly minted, and forgot Nick completely and only saw the hunter/killer/Grimm in him even though in the two years she'd seen him operate he wasn't killing wesen all willy nilly. Anything less than the wesen instinct doesn't make sense why she'd assume Nick was a threat to her. I believe once she got over the irrational fear, Nick "rejected" her by not kissing her and the hexenbiest in her amped up all the negative thoughts, perceptions of her relationship with him, thereby falling prey to a supernatural rage that also didn't make sense. At this stage she realised her power and gave in to its seduction but it didn't make her happy or feel good about herself but she was past the point of caring. There was nothing Nick could have done to assuage the biest. Either one or the other would have ended up dead and that was almost true for both.
Juliette know a Nick. Why feared?