+- Grimm Forum (https://grimmforum.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Grimm Universe (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Grimm-Universe)
+--- Forum: Episode Discussions (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Episode-Discussions)
+---- Forum: Season 4 (https://grimmforum.com/forum/Forum-Season-4)
+---- Thread: S4E22 - Cry Havoc (/Thread-S4E22-Cry-Havoc)
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - droid327 - 05-17-2015
(05-16-2015, 07:48 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: Maybe, maybe not. Something about Juliette's death just feels...off. It's too abrupt, too tidy, too "that's it?" Four years getting to know this character, and they slaughter her in the most ignominious way possible? A once-kind woman who died an irredeemable monster? It's hard to believe Bitsie would be willing to go along with that, assuming this episode was meant to be her swan song.
How I see it is four years of not knowing how to incorporate her, have her be anything besides expo or a damsel in distress or part of Nicks increasingly unimportant domestic life. Bitsie is tired of being boring, the writers just throw their hands up and say Juliette is a lost cause, let's just send her out in a blaze of bitchy glory.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - Hexenadler - 05-17-2015
(05-17-2015, 06:12 PM)droid327 Wrote: How I see it is four years of not knowing how to incorporate her, have her be anything besides expo or a damsel in distress or part of Nicks increasingly unimportant domestic life. Bitsie is tired of being boring, the writers just throw their hands up and say Juliette is a lost cause, let's just send her out in a blaze of bitchy glory.
That's an awfully irresponsible, defeatist attitude for professional writers and an actress to take, don't you think?
Besides, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to ice Juliette just when she actually stopped being boring. The only real mistake they made was turning her into an outright villain.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - Secret Keeper - 05-17-2015
(05-17-2015, 03:49 PM)Hexenadler Wrote:(05-17-2015, 03:40 PM)UndercoverGrimm Wrote: Good point. It wuld have been so sweet if Nick had taken Diana back to Adaline with blood all over his shirt. I'm hopeful they make Nick more dark in the next season.
I'm not. I really, really, really don't think I could sit through a whole season of Nick being a cynical asshole.There are ways of hardening a character without making them completely unlikable. (Something they should have done with Juliette...)
If things don't show signs of lightening up within a couple episodes of the new season, I'm done. I might power through the whole thing all at once later on to see what happens to the characters I love, but I won't subject myself to a full year's worth of darkness and cynicism. That's pretty close to opposite of what originally drew me to the show.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - izzy - 05-17-2015
(05-17-2015, 08:29 PM)Secret Keeper Wrote: If things don't show signs of lightening up within a couple episodes of the new season, I'm done. I might power through the whole thing all at once later on to see what happens to the characters I love, but I won't subject myself to a full year's worth of darkness and cynicism. That's pretty close to opposite of what originally drew me to the show.
Wow - you are really going to enjoy the 2016 Presidential cycle then : )
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - Secret Keeper - 05-17-2015
(05-17-2015, 10:52 PM)izzy Wrote: Wow - you are really going to enjoy the 2016 Presidential cycle then : )
Yeah, I really wish I could in good conscience ignore the whole thing.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - kaneki_kun - 05-17-2015
Gosh thank goodness I found this forum to discuss since none of my friends watch this show.
My prediction is this: 1) Juliette isn't dead, Kelly is. 2) Trubel is working for the Owl FBI lady who shows up at the end and she's the voice calling Trubel in Bud's truck.
1) I don't think she's dead, dead. Like really dead. She could possibly be the strongest Hexenbeast because she's made, and that part was mentioned by Harrietta and I doubt the arrow was made to kill, but maybe just to stun. Although you could see blood coming out of her mouth as the cliche death scene would. With other normal human being like Wu and
Gosh thank goodness I found this forum to discuss since none of my friends watch this show.
My prediction is this: 1) Juliette isn't dead, Kelly is. 2) Trubel is working for the Owl FBI lady who shows up at the end and she's the voice calling Trubel in Bud's truck.
1) I don't think she's dead, dead. Like really dead. She could possibly be the strongest Hexenbeast because she's made, and that part was mentioned by Harrietta and I doubt the arrow was made to kill, but maybe just to stun. Although you could see blood coming out of her mouth as the cliche death scene would. With other normal human being like Hank and Wu are contantly on the job with Nick, normal Juliette was the one that keeps him a bit more grounded. While Hank and Wu (after coming to terms with the existence of Wesen) couls handle the pressure since they are police after all, it's only natural for Juliette to feel worried for Nick, even more so after she knew what he's up against. Ask anyone with a police as a partner they'll tell you the feared for their partners' lives every single day.
She is a series regular and although time and time again regulars are cut but usually we heard rumors about it beforehand but none heard about Bitsie leaving the show. Her story isn't finish and if she's gone now, it's too abrupt. I read some said about only her Hexenbeast persona died but that's too convenient but I think it will take a long while before she can recover and be a nicer Hexenbeast and that's where the FBI lady came in. I think she sees something about Juliette, a human than became a Wesen and wonders if the reverse could be done as well, Wesen to pure Human. Think of this, I don't think she's working with the resistance cause if she does Trubel would recognize Nick's mother. It was an unfortunate coincidence that Kelly was there the same night Trubel came.
2) The Owl FBI lady is a new fraction in a possibly four-way wars going on between The Resistance-The Royal Family-Nick-and the Owl FBI (which was unfortunate enough to get mix in all of this).
Well that's what I thought at least.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - Hexenadler - 05-18-2015
(05-17-2015, 11:33 PM)kaneki_kun Wrote: She is a series regular and although time and time again regulars are cut but usually we heard rumors about it beforehand but none heard about Bitsie leaving the show. Her story isn't finish and if she's gone now, it's too abrupt. I read some said about only her Hexenbeast persona died but that's too convenient but I think it will take a long while before she can recover and be a nicer Hexenbeast and that's where the FBI lady came in. I think she sees something about Juliette, a human than became a Wesen and wonders if the reverse could be done as well, Wesen to pure Human.
Alternatively, Chavez could be seeking a way to "weaponize" the process that turned Juliette into a Hexenbiest. Maybe she has a crazy scheme to transform more humans into Wesen, for whatever reason. Even crazier: Perhaps she sees Nick as a potential mate, and wants to make him into a Steinadler.
(Oh, and technically, she's a falcon, not an owl.)
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - kaneki_kun - 05-18-2015
I forgot what she looked like as a Wesen but I know it's birdlike. Lol. The weaponizing of Wesen could be an interesting theory but it looks like man-made Wesen are out of control and that would not be a desireable outcome. Considering to make a Wesen from a pure human is coincidental to begin with. So I thought the probable theme for the next season could be about wrestling with their identity, which is already been highlighted by Nick and Monroe's friendship, Chaves could be joining the FBI because she want to find out if there's away to tear that world apart from her and she could possibly have many followings believing that they could live a normal life like a pure human would. Considering the many crimes committed by Wesen in the show, it could be a possibility.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - Hexenadler - 05-18-2015
(05-18-2015, 01:14 AM)kaneki_kun Wrote: I forgot what she looked like as a Wesen but I know it's birdlike. Lol. The weaponizing of Wesen could be an interesting theory but it looks like man-made Wesen are out of control and that would not be a desireable outcome.
Juliette turned into a Hexenbiest, and from all accounts, they're already an unstable type of Wesen to begin with. Juliette went ballistic simply because she didn't have the ability to master her new impulses.
RE: S4E22 - Cry Havoc - droid327 - 05-18-2015
(05-17-2015, 06:27 PM)Hexenadler Wrote: That's an awfully irresponsible, defeatist attitude for professional writers and an actress to take, don't you think?
Besides, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to ice Juliette just when she actually stopped being boring. The only real mistake they made was turning her into an outright villain.
Eh? Writers write characters out of shows all the time when the shows going to go in a different direction, as Grimm appears to be setting up to do.
And the brightest candle burns the fastest...the only reason Juliette stopped being boring/useless was because they put her on a path that had to end in her death. She couldn't remain in the state she was in as a long-term villain; she'd overwhelm the show. Nor could she be "redeemed" without just going back to being boring as she used to be. I don't think even a "good hexenbiest Juliette" would have been interesting, because at this point she could only ever be an accessory to Nick, but not even one as interesting as Hank.
She got the Jack London sendoff, she got to be the meteor instead of the planet.